Why I don't like Ereptor's style of playing...

[Ragefur]

It has been suggested that I don't really know how to play this game, because I don't know(or care) about the formulas which lie behind the game, I don't calculate what my net worth will be in 200 turns or figure out exactly how many skiffs I'm going to earn next turn. I also don't really care about those things.

The kinds of things that I find fun are a lot more random and undetermined than that.

The way the game is being played right now is more like a game of chess or backgammon than anything fun and chaotic.

Ereptor is winning. But I don't care. Because he's winning a math contest and not a war.

It would be good if there were some way to make this game more chaotic and less math-driven. Change the formulas, add rand() to all of them, hide the complicated math. Make Redwall Warlords a game about Warlords and not Redwall Trigonometry.

Real wars aren't predictable. Nor should wargames be.

[Ereptor]

Ahhh *deep breath* What a great breath of fresh air you are Ragey.  If any of you know me or have worked personally with me you know that I am anything but a math genious or numbers guy.  In fact I rather not let you know how much I actually suck at it.  I am not the brains behind this networth.  Those awards go to others.  I am a raging madman with plans of destruction and choas. 

I am so glad that there are people out there like you ragey because I feel the same.  Its to bad you make judgements on me rather than asking me specifically.  You might find out we are agree on more than you think.  I have used every bit of this game in the past to create Role playing wars, I have scraped this game of every bit of diplomacy that can be used.  I have implimented Emperor decrees that have changed the way the game has been played.  The difference between my last reign and this current reign is two things.  I wasn't afraid to kill and the skill of the current players.  At this point the only way we could hold power was to purely dominate.  To do this I had to have the smartest players.  Unfortunately they not as bloodthirsty and they don't get the crazy eyes.  This is what I used during the dark ages.  Crazy, bloodthirsty warlords.  They killed at my command and thats how I remained in power. 

In this round we couldn't afford to waste turns killing.  We got hit and lost almost everything we had worked for 3 times.  I was broke, my land was distributed and we were murdered and poisoned.  What we didn't do was panic.  We took a deep breath and said.  No worries, we'll do it again.  This networth you see here was earned with patience, blood, sweat and tears.  It was partly a numbers game, yes, unfortunately.  But with the game code as it is, it leaves us with little options.  I wish this game could grow and I have offered small ideas that I believe would change the way the game is viewed and played.  Like adding a larege mirror to a small room.  But they have never been implimented even being as small as they are. 

I will go out on a limb and say that I have more experience than any rwl player and being on top.  I have been Emp 4 times.  Once as Ereptor, once as Sauron, once as the Emp of Rome, and finally my current emperorship.  This could be added up to almost a year of experience as being emperor.  I know what it feels like, how the game changes when you reach the top and seeing this I can see so many changes that could be made to make it a funner game. 

I would like to see this game grow, expand and not be driven by only math problems.  But sadly that is where we are with our current skill of players and lack of code changes.  The admins work very hard and impliment a ton of stuff.  But I haven't seen reg grow in what it could be.  I just hope the reset could bring some more depth to the game.  I wish an admin would ask me what would like to see changed or if I had any ideas.  Im not trying to blow my own horn.  But as far as experience and gameplay it would be wise to ask the players what their opinions were.

[Ragefur]

I agree with your post; and I'm not arguing that I really know you or how you play...

I'm really just responding to a general feeling I've gotten since I started playing again that everything is now a math problem. People don't have stable countries, they make "networth bombing runs" which is not really fun...

You certainly do have a lot of experience being on top... and good job doing it.

I don't know if we could ever be friends though. I don't like your entourage of yes-men.

MODIFY: I mean in-game friends, natch... I'm a nice person OOC.

[Ruatine]

*laughs* Ah, this brings back memories.

I remember being one of Ereptor's yes-men (yes-woman?) back in the day. I have to say it was really fun.

As for me, I don't know anything about the math behind the game. I remember looking at it a long time ago and deciding it wasn't for me. Since I've started playing again, I just go with my gut and leave all scruples behind. I prefer to play a game where there's a certain amount of chance and lot of bloodthirstiness. In my opinion, that what makes a game fun to play.

[TheSpaceman]

I have to agree too, sort of. I'm aware of the general gist of the math but not the specifics, except that i want a 175 leader/hut ratio. If you are leadering, (I'm not) you NEED to know the math to be any good at it. 

A chaotic math system would certainly make things interesting, but i still think things wouldn't change, i don't but if i wanted to, even with random numbers figure things out, just assume worst-case scenario.  And if you randomize everything what happens to strategic superiority like troop numbers, the whole game structure goes out the window.

The maths is important to the code and coming from someone who knows a small bit about coding, learned a few languages at university (colledge for the Americans here, Lol.), the changes needed to implement this randomness would be huge, you would have to redo so much coding, forage, loot troop generation, attacks, defense, and even probably the core code itself, and all of those things affect other things, its really quite interconnected.

The main reason i wouldn't change things is because, as far as i can tell, your main problem is actually with the players styles and not the game, the fact that the game allows people to do the math is secondary, and these 'bombing runs' are a symptom of the land lock, id love to build up some net and duke it out normally but you cant without land.  The randomness you speak of, from where i sit doesn't help the game grow, it takes away options from people, options that may be annoying to some, and options that some people are using, to their detriment perhaps, as they just stagnate in their style and don't get better, but neverthe less I'm sure people would continue to do much the same thing if everything was random.

I know what works for me, i.e. forage makes food and troops if i have foragers and barracks, and the more of each the more u make, i am aware of the troop training ratios, but do i sit there and do the sums to determine how many turns i need to forage to get 1mill stoats or whatever, nope, i just take a guess, and live with the consequences.  That some can be bothered i actually congratulate them, but in my mind that makes the 'game' no longer that, its just a chore.

My two cents worth

[Gen. Volkov]

Ragey... talk to me after the reset, or PM me, you have completely the wrong impression of what is going on here. Or maybe you do know, and you calling us yes-men is IC.

As for the math... that's pretty much standard operating procedure anymore for the skilled players.

[Gorak]

who needs math
I learned trial by error

it's experience I use, not math skill

this is the math I use
more troops = more net, but more upkeep
more land = more troop production
run a turn with no food or cash = -3% (I seem to forget that equation fairly often)

and that's about it

but I resent Ereptor seemingly including me in the group that lacks being bloodthirsty
you guy's kept me on a leash as far as bloodthirstiness goes

[Shadow]

It's true - me and Holbs are the level headed ones, everyone else has been raring to go haha.

Randomness is actually a big part of the game - leader suicides for example, can do almot no damage or a ton. The trick to doing the math is to understand that the AVERAGE of what you are doing is going to work out to a certian value, or very close to one as you do more of it. The point is that you COULD add rand() to everything, but the math would still be feasible because of those averages.

[Holby]

It has been suggested that I don't really know how to play this game, because I don't know(or care) about the formulas which lie behind the game, I don't calculate what my net worth will be in 200 turns or figure out exactly how many skiffs I'm going to earn next turn. I also don't really care about those things.

I don't think math has any reason to do with sucking at RWL. Those things you show as an example of what makes you 'suck', are completely irrelevant to me and probably everyone else. Understanding the elementary math of the game is more than you need to succeed. Most of us who consider ourselves good players play by feel and experience, not because of our understanding of the code and the math.
If you suck, it's because you don't understand the strategies, the style of play, how to react to situations, and a hundred other things that only experience can teach you.

I'm all for more random possibilities in RWL, but it won't change how the game is played or who is good at it.

Spend 6 months playing again, you'll have a more informed opinion.

[Ragefur]

There is no point helping the same person win every time guys...

You should all rebel.

The Elusive Ragefur

[kell]

ive said it to shadow so many times.,. how does he find the game fun if you have a maths book and calculator. i've never bothered to learned the maths of the game for a few reasons
1) i'm way to lazy
2) maths isn't fun so it would turn a fun game into a serious maths club
3) i'm just way to la     (too lazy yo finish ill get back to it again)

[Shadow]

I almost never actually do the math. I only ever do it if I have to do a difficult takedown and don't want to waste my time. The rest of the time I can usually make a rough guess in my head and go with that.

[Shade]

I got tired of having to do the math, so I gathered all the formulae's together and created a redwall calculator program to do it for me. That said, I never use the thing save for a difficult takedown, which hasn't occured in a few months

[Gen. Volkov]

There is no point helping the same person win every time guys...

Um... we aren't. Ereptor has been emp 4 times, but it's been a very long time between this current one and the last time he was. Between then and now, we've had a whole bunch of other people be emp, or create dominating clans, or do any number of things. Peace Alliance has been Emp at least twice since the last time Ereptor was emp. Wolf Snare at least once, myself once, I think windy once or twice, I can't even keep track any more. ROME was like 3 years ago. Shoot, between ROME and now we've had like 2 or 3 game resets.

[Juska]

Of course the game is ruled by mathematics. You can break everything down into some kind of mathematics. You want to know what the ()rand is?

It is the people.

()rand is that "stupid" guy who doesn't care what his net is like but just wants to beat you down because you took 5k of his land. Or it's the guy that for the past 4 weeks has down his runs every 4th day after 6pm, but the day you put something into motion he runs a day late and your stranded without land. Or it's the guy hiding in the low 20's with billions of cash that you didn't care to espionage. Or the guy that doesn't care about onlining you and you know what he just wants to eff you up because he can.

Know enough and you can predict what people will do as well, but they are the random factor. The RWL world (code) cannot be random just like gravity is a law or water boils at 100% C, it's the same concept.