Suiciding

[Ereptor]

Ok, I feel bad about doing this because I think I started doing this to people first.  It was a great tactic after people began to get good at leadering.  I had been doing leadering for awhile and had so much success that this was the only way I found that I could hurt someone that leadered as well.  Maybe Wolf started doing before me, I dunno.  But anyway to my point. 

21.1 hours ago You find The Obliterator (#41) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 2991 Leaders, losing 2949677 Leaders in the process.

This means for every leader he loses he kills 1000 of mine.  Now dont get me wrong, but oblits army isnt that strong.  heh heh.  But seriously if someone is not doing the leader strat and is allowed to do that kind of damage.....it just seems unfair.  Now I know I am complaining while i sit on the top.  But in reality I am not sitting at all, its taken our team lots of hard work to get here and I would hate to see the next emp struggle with such a horrible bug.

Please fix this admins. 

[Shade]

I'm fairly sure that it usually works the other way, witht he attacker loosing far more than the defender, but yes, it is a bit over powered

[Ereptor]

No it doesnt work the other way and that was not a one time deal.  A "bit overpowered"?????  Give me a break.


21.4 hours ago You find The Obliterator (#41) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 2854 Leaders, losing 2840843 Leaders in the process.
21.4 hours ago You find The Obliterator (#41) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 2991 Leaders, losing 2949677 Leaders in the process.
21.4 hours ago You find The Obliterator (#41) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 5030 Leaders, losing 1708677 Leaders in the process.
15.8 hours ago You find Let this be a lesson t' ya! (#361) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 106292 Leaders, losing 2548134 Leaders in the process.
days, 8.5 hours ago You find Bob-sama (#472) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 60135 Leaders, losing 418335 Leaders in the process.
4 days, 8.5 hours ago You find Bob-sama (#472) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 129807 Leaders, losing 1593654 Leaders in the process.
4 days, 8.5 hours ago You find Bob-sama (#472) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 64989 Leaders, losing 1729034 Leaders in the process.
4 days, 8.5 hours ago You find Bob-sama (#472) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 106008 Leaders, losing 649386 Leaders in the process.
4 days, 8.5 hours ago You find Bob-sama (#472) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 1380 Leaders, losing 1410516 Leaders in the process.
4 days, 8.5 hours ago You find Bob-sama (#472) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 141211 Leaders, losing 695720 Leaders in the process.
4 days, 8.5 hours ago You find Bob-sama (#472) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 30383 Leaders, losing 695691 Leaders in the process.
4 days, 8.5 hours ago You find Bob-sama (#472) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 94932 Leaders, losing 722218 Leaders in the process.
4 days, 8.5 hours ago You find Bob-sama (#472) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 51912 Leaders, losing 1542283 Leaders in the process.

It doesnt take much to leader attack and its horribly devistating. 

[Shade]

Ah well, usually with me it's quite the reverse, I loose more leader than whoever I'm suiciding, but I suppose with me there's usually not so dramatic a difference between my leaders and the opponents.

[Ereptor]

exactly my point.  There shouldnt be.  You should not be able to lead 10 men into battle against a million and kill 10,000.  That is what is happening.  Do you see anything wrong with that?

[The Lady Shael]

The development team is working on fixing this, we were recently talking about it. Shadow or wolf can elaborate more on this fix if they want.

[Wolf Snare]

Alright, I have to step in here. This is what you are complaining about; Oblit, an indier, comes along, and does just as much damage as a leaderer would have. If it had been me or Bob suiciding, you wouldn't have made this topic.

Realistically, we can't change leader suicides at all, because it would make it impossible to takedown emperors.

I think the point you are getting at is, because oblit is indying, and has probably 10k leaders altogether, you would rather see one of us atleast damage ourselves?

If anything, there should be a simple solution: don't allow the mission to "succeed" if the attacker has less than X amount of leaders. However, there are still loopholes, and it would have to really be revised to make it work. Problem is, when we start tinkering around with the code and upgrading everything, we unknowingly ruin other aspects of the game. Exactly why I think leaving it how it is, is the best solution. The man who invented prom (bless him) was a very smart guy, and he created the leader suicide option to balance the game. We can't just go around and suggest the obvious fix to make our strategies invulnerable.

[Holby]

Imagine attacking with 1 million rats and destroying one billion, that's what it is.

[Gorak]

losses in leader suicides should be comparable on both sides
ie, if I attack with 100k leaders, their casualties should be based off the number I am attacking with, not a random percent within a range of their total # of their leaders
so if I attack with 100k and lose 15k in process, their casualties should be around the 15k range aswell + or - racial bonus's and what not

think of it in terms of troops
if I attack with 100 rats, should I be able to inflict 100000 casualties on my enemy per attack because he has 30million?

[Ereptor]

You didnt answer the questions you just posed more questions.  

First off your right, I am frustrated that someone with a hundredth of my army can come in and kill whatever he wants with nothing.  I am sure if you attacked me with 1million rats and I had a 10 billion and you killed 1 billion I would still be mad.  It doesnt make sense and claiming that this balances out the game is hogwash.  It is just lazy code.  Your right about it being complex though, I am not the person to talk about code.  

I am glad admins are working on a fix and it should make it that you have to have a certain amount in order to attack.   Because even read what it says when you do attack.  Your army runs at the sight of your oppponet!  Do you think that 3000 leaders "running away" because they are scared of the sight of the opponet are going to kill 100 times their amount before running?   Highly doubtful.  There needs to be change.  But its nice that you feel that as an emperor i would be impossible to take down

[The Lady Shael]

I think normally we don't discuss staff developments out here, but let's get some feedback on it.

I think wolf's idea for a fix is fair. This is his idea: instead of adjusting the losses, we adjust how hard the attack is. So, the defender's losses would be based on the attacker's hut/land ratio. If the attacker has 10% huts, the defender would lose 10% of what they normally would. If the attacker has 100% huts, then the losses would be just like it is now.

[The Obliterator]

But you can kill troops like that if you have really low health.
I think it should be kept this way because plenty of shades scemes have failed because of someone coming on at the last minute and suiciding so it works both ways.
If i can do it so can you and it makes it fair.
Like ereptor said he was one of the ones who started it and just because he thinks that its unfair now that it is happening to him he now wants someone to change it.
Somehow i dont think that is fair he did it to others let him deal with it now.

[Ereptor]

0.4 hours ago You find The Obliterator (#41) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 427 Leaders, losing 622246 Leaders in the process.

You really think this is fair?  I mean honestly.  And yes it is convient that I am complaining about this now.  But you dont see tons of people running around with 500k land these days now do you??   This is an obvious flaw.  I am not saying that people shouldnt be allowed to suicide and use attack in that way.  But do you really think it is good sportsman ship to lose 427 leaders at my 600k?  I mean really.  I just think you guys are sore because your getting owned.  But thats my opinion, feel free to prove me wrong because your arguements dont hold up.

"ummm yaa well if i had 0 health and had 50mill stoats and I attacked someone with 5 mill I would lose alot"  Well Duh.  Dont make yourself look unintelligent.

[Shadow]

Wolf's idea is perfectly fair IMO. It means that suicides will be just as powerful as ever, but only in the hands of a leaderer. Indiers will not be able to kill millions of leaders and lose only a few hundred, which is how it should be.

[The Obliterator]

0.4 hours ago You find The Obliterator (#41) losing a fight with your leaders! You killed 427 Leaders, losing 622246 Leaders in the process.

You really think this is fair?  I mean honestly.  And yes it is convient that I am complaining about this now.  But you dont see tons of people running around with 500k land these days now do you??   This is an obvious flaw.  I am not saying that people shouldnt be allowed to suicide and use attack in that way.  But do you really think it is good sportsman ship to lose 427 leaders at my 600k?  I mean really.  I just think you guys are sore because your getting owned.  But thats my opinion, feel free to prove me wrong because your arguements dont hold up.

"ummm yaa well if i had 0 health and had 50mill stoats and I attacked someone with 5 mill I would lose alot"  Well Duh.  Dont make yourself look unintelligent.

So your running round with 500k land. Expect resistance. Ours is in the form of leader suiciding. Deal with it.