Bro Rule Violation – Disabling

[wolf bite]

Bro Rule Violation – Disabling

Relevant rules:

"Bro" accounts understand they are held to stricter rules.

"Bro" accounts can not take part in the same kill run.

Admins may take immediate action concerning "Bro" accounts without warning or requesting explanation.


It seems that 5 days ago Feng Kestrel (#552) and qee almost dead (#819) were on a kill run on Kell. They got Kell down to 3 land, but were out of turns. Instantly Wise Claw (#544) logged in and took the final 3 blows, causing Kell's death.  Based on the form of attack, I find it likely that it was Wise Claw's hands on the keyboard. However Wise Claw is a "bro" account of gee almost dead and both accounts took part in the kill of a player.

Action:
Both "gee almost dead" and "Wise Claw" will be disabled for about 5 to 7 days (depending on when I am on line to reactivate the accounts).


Wolf Bite
(Admin Duties)

[Firetooth]

wow please disable me!!!!!

"I have a brother or sister that wants to play on the same computer?

We do allow both of you to play, but the accounts are closely watched. You will be under special rules that restrict you from doing anything a cheater would use 2 accounts for. If the Staff even suspects misuse, your accounts will be temporarily disabled before you are asked about the situation.

The rules are: Both accounts can't take part in the same killing of another player, One account can not continuously send aid to the other, one account can not retaliate for attacks on the other, and basically anything that makes the accounts look like they are working together."

Me and sharptooth have done before when working with Marell along with bob we took down the same people on two seperate occasions-one recently-and you haven't batted an eyelid!
neither knew these rules this is ridculious.
Im not trying to ridicule you for doing you job, but I find it unfair. In my view you've been casting a blind eye and have only suddenly acted because of a reporting.

EDIT: Oh, and Ive realised even you've broken this rule if father/son counts.

I saw Wake on MSN, knew I had back up. Decided to make the run and ware down Snare's turns on me so wake could take his land. But Wake was not watching or responding until the exact time I needed him. 

The rules are: Both accounts can't take part in the same killing of another player, One account can not continuously send aid to the other, one account can not retaliate for attacks on the other, and basically anything that makes the accounts look like they are working together

[wolf bite]

A few things.

First I don't always know about a violation unless I happen on it or it is reported. I do not check every attack or aid sent.

The rules about "bro" accounts have been posted many times on the forum and it is the members responsibility to know them. Further, I have sent each player that requests a Bro account the rules. Ignorance is no excuse.

Bros occasionally sending aid back and forth as army team mates would do is NOT against the rules. One account existing only for the reasons of feeding the other account is against the bro rules. To my knowledge, your turbo account is not in violation.

Blood Wake did not retaliate for me, I never have needed someone to help me. Hehe. I had strategically set up Snare to use his turns so a team mate (also at war with Snare) could grab his land. Not a violation.

Edit: And further on questioning me and Blood Wake, I had to see him on MSN, thus we were NOT at the same location, thus the Bro rules would not apply even if we did a kill run.


Wolf Bite
(Admin Duties)

[pippin the mighty]

Wolfbite, it doesn't state clearly, but what does "Bro", actualy stand for?

If it's and abreviation for "Brother", that could rule out other family members, like mother, sister?

Just checking.

*Edit.

*And how would somebody be able to report there "theory", if they don't know they are brothers, as not many people know.

Sorry if this sounds like flaming, I just feel that a fair chance can be had.

[Firetooth]

aha
maybe the rules are a bit unclear. I still believe 5days to a week is too far. It hasn't hugely affected the game play-it was like only 2 or 3 acres Kell was done for either way.

[wolf bite]

Both accounts knew the Bro Rules (which is the slang for even friends playing at the same location). They violated the rules. That violation caused the killing of another player who had to start all over.

At what point should we overlook a violation of a rule? Maybe if wise claw had taken 5, 10, 20, or 40 attacks? You see it is hard to make a wishy-washy line on what should be punished. But in this case it caused the killing of a player. I think that clearly has caused a major change in the game. I really do not care if with only 3 land left that someone else could have logged on and killed Kell in 10 minutes because by the same reasoning Kell could have signed on 2 minutes later and saved his account.


Wolf Bite

[Gen. Volkov]

Wolf bite, you have to hold yourself to the same standard that you expect others to be held too.

Now, if it was the case the the two were working together in other ways, then yes, I could understand. But logging on to help with a kill run doesn't qualify. For all we know, the brother could have been on MSN, waiting to see if the other two could succeed. Do you have any evidence or reports that any other violations have taken place with these two? Like endless one way aid sending? You can't prohibit players from working together. If it looks like one person using both accounts, then fine, but two separate people working together? No. That is not just or fair.

Furthermore, because Wake is your son, you also violated that rule in setting up Snare for anything, kill run or no. You worked closely with a family member to set Snare up for a take down.

[Firetooth]

All the proof he has is some attack records and kell's word. Like you said, wise claw could've been waiting for qee to be finished, they do share a computer.

[Shadow]

I've talked with Peace a few times about it, and he says that bro rules are only to avoid multis, and if the people in question are beyond doubt two different people, they can work together. I have worked together with my brother several times using this interpretation of the rules since I think that the admins trust that I would not multi account at this point. I think that everyone here believes that wolf bite and Bloodwake are two different people, and therefore should be allowed to work as closely together a they wish, up to and including participating in a kill run. Feng and gee are relatively new, though, and there is no real way to tell if they are in fact two different people, so they get treated as though they are multis if they work together. I think that Firetooth and Sharptooh are neyond doubt two different people, so I don't know about that.

Sure one could have been waiting for the other to finish, but since we just don't know, it is better to take the safe route and assume the worst. They know the bro rules, and they knowingly violated them.

I realize that this interpretation leaves room for calls of biased treatment based on seniority, though, so different treatment isn't necessarily something that should happen.

This is not a criticism of any action taken here, just some opinions on the matter based on my experience with the bro rules.

[Firetooth]

A) Lol, it's qee not gee.
B) I see your points
C) It's qee and wise claw who are disabled
D) Agreed. Seniority is everything, qee and wise claw have totally different typing styles plus the fact this is the only time they've ever done something do benefit the other account.
E) The main problem here is we have little hard proof to say it's multi/bro abuse or truely not against the rules, is it fair to play safe and possibly innocent people to be blamed and punished???

Also a personal views: Tougher up the bro rules or abolish them. They're to wishy-washy and favoured towards seniority.

[Shadow]

Seniority played no part in the disablings here, so don't start that argument. Sorry I even brought up the word. If they play from the same computer and are new here, they should not have worked together like that. [haties], they could have waited 10 mins and got an extra few attacks in...

I don't really see a point in temporary disabling though, it just makes it impossible to retaliate without actually doing any permenent damage.

[kell]

in fact i logged in not too long after dying 20mins or so, could've made a big difference. i've always understood the rule as it could give a pair a great advantage eg i get my sis to set up an account sit her down get her to sucide whoever until i know i can break then i log in and do damage.
wolfbite and blood wake live miles apart the rule is about people sharing who share ip (so i believe)

[Shadow]

Yeah, because that's basically the only way to tell if two people have any kind of relationship outside the game

[windhound]

Yes...  the Bros rules, to my understanding, only cover those living in the same space, sharing an ip.
Otherwise we'd have to have irl Friends rules too

The rules are designed, as said, to make it less easy on those wanting multiple accounts.  The most common use of a multi is a mule or to have extra turns for a kill run. 

We WANT people to play the game.  But we Need it to be fair, and preventing multies is a part of that fairness. 

As far as seniority, its a part of life.  Get used to it. 
Ex, The staff and a good number of members know I have a brother who used to play (Amaroq).  If he wanted he could sign up, no questions asked, and play whatever style he wanted. 
Who's going to be trusted with the keys to lockup at night, the new kid who started a week ago, or the oldtimer who's been working at the shop ten years?

Once they stick around a while and we can know them as two separate personalities then some leeway may be given.  Until then they're unknowns and will be treated as such.
Yes, the innocent are presumed guilty until facts can be solidified.  Facts are extraordinarily hard to come by on the internet, so bear with us as we try to keep the game cheater-free

[wolf bite]

Well said windy.

I like Wise Claw as one of the most polite people. I did not take this action lightly. In fact I had too contemplate for half an hour after I verified. They are only disabled on reg and are not gagged on the forums, thus welcome to post their opinions.

I am like the local sheriff in a small town, I may go to a barbeque on the week end and may still need to throw a friend in jail if they try to leave the party drunk. It is not personal!

About Bro accounts. Log ago in Retto's day, suddenly it seemed everyone popped up with a brother and multi playing ruled the game. We had to set rules to be fair to those that do not have a brother, sister, or other person playing at the same location.

Yes, to some extent the verification we have that 2 people are really different does relax the Bro rules. But it is still a temptation to jump on even a real life bro account in times of need. So after time we relax the rules, but they don't completely vanish. It just means that I don't spend the time checking their accounts (unless reported) and would over look minor discrepancies.

Shadow, your conversation with Peace concerning the bro rules was with him IMing me at the same time, the information was from me via peace. On Peace's assurance that you have a bro, and your past good behavior in the community, the rules became relaxed for your account.

I know both windy and his bro as real people and have 100% trust in windy on all matters. However, a kill is a major event. If windy and his bro both switched accounts back and forth to do a kill, I would over look it. On the other hand, if one used all their turns with the other not even on line, then and only then the other signed on to finish the person off, I would take a closer look in order to be fair to the person who was killed.

Blood wake, who I fully know and trust, was promoting our game in his local library and signed up 4 people on the same server, I kept them all on the strict Bro rules.

As far as me and Blood wake violating the rules, I said above we do not live at the same location, in fact, he is 1,000 miles away!

Peace and Josh are real life friends and live in the same town. But they played the game from different locations, they were never on the Bro rules.

In this incidence with Wise Claw and Qee it should be known that I believe they are different people and do not check their accounts anymore and the rules are relaxed. Wise Claw had not been on line and had not taken part in beating Kell down. Qee had used up his turns and had to wait for more turns to take more shots. Feng took over the attacks. Qee could only take a few shots as turns came. Suddenly with only a 9 second difference between attacks, Wise Claw logged in and finished Kell off. 

I find it hard to believe that in under 9 seconds that Qee said "hey Sis can you do me a favor", Qee logs out, gets out of the chair, Wise claw sits down and logs in, Wise Claw targets Kell, then spends the time to change the attack types to Sack, then hits the button. 

I feel this is a violation of even relaxed Bro rules. I am willing to discuses whether the punishment is too strict.


Wolf Bite
(Admin Duties)
Edit: had some wrong names in wrong places.