What we really need

[Holby]

There has been much talk of game development, balancing races, adding new features, and all sorts of wonderful things. And that's all well and good. But you know why reg, after going all the way to 50+ for the first time in God knows how long, has started falling away again?

We get a LOT of sign ups. There are always a heap of people in protection. And we get a lot of people who play for the first week, lose interest, and quit. If we could get every player that signed up in the last 2 months to use turns until now, we'd probably have over a 100 actives. The issue with our game isn't balance, it's holding the people we get.

Why wouldn't our new players stay? Well, off the top of my head, there are a few reasons I can come up with:
There's no game guide
Attacking is really confusing
There aren't any easy ways to learn when you first start
The game is aggressive and largely impersonal
There's no useful page by page help
There are no sexy graphics to compensate for the learning curve

I think, rather than trying to fix the game's imbalance, we should concentrate on upping its playability. Make it easy to start and give some incentive to keep playing. This could be as simple as a welcome page directing to simple tutorials, or promoting continued play with a cash bonus for using more than 200 turns. Regardless, we have to do something.

Thoughts?

[Shadow]

There has been much talk of game development, balancing races, adding new features, and all sorts of wonderful things. And that's all well and good. But you know why reg, after going all the way to 50+ for the first time in God knows how long, has started falling away again?

We get a LOT of sign ups. There are always a heap of people in protection. And we get a lot of people who play for the first week, lose interest, and quit. If we could get every player that signed up in the last 2 months to use turns until now, we'd probably have over a 100 actives. The issue with our game isn't balance, it's holding the people we get.

Why wouldn't our new players stay? Well, off the top of my head, there are a few reasons I can come up with:
There's no game guide
Attacking is really confusing
There aren't any easy ways to learn when you first start
The game is aggressive and largely impersonal
There's no useful page by page help
There are no sexy graphics to compensate for the learning curve

I think, rather than trying to fix the game's imbalance, we should concentrate on upping its playability. Make it easy to start and give some incentive to keep playing. This could be as simple as a welcome page directing to simple tutorials, or promoting continued play with a cash bonus for using more than 200 turns. Regardless, we have to do something.

Thoughts?

1. Windy is working on the game guide. i'm not sure what the end result will be, but having it up will certainly be a start.
2. Agree 100%. Groups making attacking ridiculously overcomplicated while taking defense right out of the game. Groups should go, although sack, capture etc should definitely stay (be boosted?)
3 and 4 combined. Most of the oldbies recognize that land grabs are not personal, but noobies do not. I recently got a friend to sign up on turbo but he doesn't want to leave protection because he says he won;t be online 24/7 to retaliate. I will teach him a bit, but other noobies don't get that. Perhaps we should make a message from the admins appear in the mailbox when you sign up with some general info on how to react to attacking.
5. The tips glossary could always be revamped.
6. I remember Shael talking about incorporating flash animation into the game. What happened thee? ^_^

Other than that, perhaps we should start advertising. Other promi games is a good place to start. From the FAF forum, where they rank us at 3 out of 5:

3. Redwall Warlords
Redwall Warlords inspired FAF directly -- at first, in imitation, but later, in innovation over RWL. You will always find a new twist on gameplay with each Turbo round (reset monthly), and there are many experienced and friendly players to help you out. The forums can be a bit intimidating at first, but one gets used to it. The reason it is not higher in this ranking is that some gameplay issues remain unresolved.

I suspect that the gameplay issues have been resolved already. Perhaps we should set the record straight?

And finally, we should have a glossary of SIMPLE, yet EFFECTIVE strategies that any nooby can pick up. Indy and leader massing are not simple strats. If we can make market strats viable, noobies might be more inclined to stick with it when they see all those little green numbers :)

[wolf bite]

As for questions 1-5, the answers are already been worked on and ready (some rougher then others) to be implemented.

* game guide ---rough draft running on test server, could be put up for now
* Attacking is really confusing --- On the things in "to-do" with a feasible way figured out.
* ways to learn --- TK kids and I make a tutorial, Craby sent the link to most new players. Sadly, many are gone or wasted turns before they see it.
* The game is aggressive and largely impersonal --- mentioned in the tutorial. Also beginning income defaults will help, when implemented.
* There's no useful page by page help --- Tutorial.

Also I rewrote the "tips" months ago and waiting to be reviewed by others.
As for some strategies, Wolf Bite's Journal 2.0 was written almost a year ago and waiting to replace the 2003 version.

I will not hide that I wish these things were given priority far over some of the changes we have made for the pros to have more interest. I feel they would have had more interest having more competition.  Besides, they never leave anyway.  Thus not a big risk.

Right now the staff is working on some other ideas to debug the game.  I do give debugging some major priority.  I still don't understand watching 1 member come and 1 member go each day.

It is a question of priority for what work your unpaid staff should be doing during their spare time. (In no order):

A)   Improve the graphics to makes people feel they are getting their worth from the site
B)   Implement the guide, tutorials, and other new player additions
C)   Improve the performance and functions, ie: the new market and races
D)   Make the program run faster and better with less bugs
E)   Remove/minimize some of the confusing things while still keeping the program the same


Feel free to post what order you would like these things done in?


Wolf Bite

[Immortal]

We could create another LAppren :] But we'd need some people to back  it up :P Perhaps the mentors themselves? It'd be hard to get another thing going exactly like it was before. That'd solve some of the frustration/confusion and learning what to expect and stuff.

[Ruddertail]

The problem is keeping people long enough to get them interested in a training clan. If someone doesn't even make it out of protection, they don't really get interested in a training clan.

Wolf - I'd say:
1: B)   Implement the guide, tutorials, and other new player additions
(Most important thing when it comes to getting players is to keep them long enough to get them interacting with other members.)


2: or 3: E)   Remove/minimize some of the confusing things while still keeping the program the same
2: or 3: A)   Improve the graphics to makes people feel they are getting their worth from the site
(In no particular order. Graphics have never really been a draw for me, and not just because I'm on dialup. On the other hand, they might draw others by engaging them in it. A battle can be more exciting if it's accompanied by some cool animation, and, given the fact that promi gameplay itself isn't all that inspiring (press buttons, watch text change. Fill in boxes. Watch more text change. Whoop - de - do.) we might do well to make things a bit more engaging. Further, it's a positive draw. On the other hand, complexity can drive some away. I don't really know which would matter more to me - I don't mind complex and don't care for graphics all that much here, but, then, I'm a little different sometimes. :P )


4: D)   Make the program run faster and better with less bugs
(Meh. It's not that buggy, and I don't think I've gotten a "CPU capacity" message for a weak or two. Really, this is kind of a minor thing, though I guess the CPU capacity bit could scare some people away.

5: C)   Improve the performance and functions, ie: the new market and races
(Unless I totally misunderstand what you're saying, this is the kind of thing that will matter to those who have gotten through the first few weeks and now hooked on the competition and interaction of promi. Us old folks, the new chaps who've decided they're going to stick around (people like Firetooth) but not the totally new chap who thinks he's got to retal 1:1...  And as far as us old folks go, the only thing about the game that's going to make us leave the game is if it gets boring, and the best way to make it boring is to get it down to 5 people.

So, I say, put the new player friendliness changes first, old player benefit later. We can wait. We'll still be here. Whether we add new people to the list of those waiting... that's not so certain.

[Firetooth]

The game is very confusing for noobs after half way through my second round I still didn't know what land grabbing was. A turtorial would be useful because otherwise you don't have a clue about anything. You can't always blame noobs for not staying if the game seems complicated and they're never told the rules. It would be simple just to email any new players the rules/simple starts/how to react to attacks.
My sister never really got interested in the game, maybe some flash would improve that? Also lots of the strats are very confusing I'm still learning stuff about the strats, my brother's much better at the stuff.
  Like holby said in the protection zones some people never leave them. Think of all the noobs who've left over the years, and how much bigger this game would be?
   Maybe on the forums there could be a section for helping the new players with stratergies, attacks and soforth. I proarbly don't know too much on how to improve the game though.

[bjornredtail]

Additional graphics and animations and the like would get old quick unless they are showing some useful data...


As far as the game guide, you folks could do what we did over at FAF: Set up a Wiki. I'm sure the community would be most helpful in drafting the new guide.

[Scarwake]

Windy & Myself have been doing a collaborative effort on the new Game Guide.  We are working to get the most current information we can on it as quickly as we can.  We just got done with our finals, the holidays are rolling around so that keeps a lot of people busy.  And for me, I also at the age of 19 hold a full-time job at a credit union.

Its not that we aren't working on getting these things up.  They are being worked on.  They are coming soon.

As for the training clans.  I've done this throughout the years, or tried to atleast.  The only thing is...most of these people through my experience refuse to follow some of the basic guidelines you try to help them with.  If a special code for a training clan could be implemented then that would be great, only thing is....How are we supposed to determine who gets placed into the training clan and who doesn't? You can't merely have it for new accounts on the server, everyone would get stuck in that clan until an admin had the chance to filter through everyone.

{Have more to follow this @ work right now so its hard to get all my thoughts down without being interrupted by members.}

[Nohcnonk]

MORE SEXY GRAFIX.

Also, a game guide that's easy to navigate and isn't too wordy would be a great addition.

[Firetooth]

wait...its a breakthrough...a game guide with sexy grafix!

[Shadow]

I think the one thing that is a step in the right direction vis a vis new players is getting rid of groups. I remember when I rejoined the game a year and a half ago, i took one look at the attacking page and quit for half a year.

[Firetooth]

MORE SEXY GRAFFIX! ALSO a proper rule mail sent to every new player.

I think the one thing that is a step in the right direction vis a vis new players is getting rid of groups. I remember when I rejoined the game a year and a half ago, i took one look at the attacking page and quit for half a year.

This is a problem on both worlds. Noobs kill or ruin people for no reason other then they can...like I said before I rule guide could help this matter...however you'd need to make it intersting or noobs would just delete it straight away (maybe adding graffix? Or shiny writing?)
Alright I admit when I was skinner all me and nutty did was scheme against each other then we went and tried to kill verdauga and sparta for no reason other then we could, of course then I didn't know even one rule...in the end I plotted evil revenge against nutty but then the reset came. Like I said before, rules and hints would avoid needless deaths, arguements and wars. If you are a noob and you are ruined...you'll proarbly just quit RWL and never return because you get so annoyed.

[RazorClaw]

as someone who has, for all intents and purposes, left, I have two problems:

1) maths. we is not good at them. well, we is, but we does not likes them. the original game required no maths and little planning. :P

2) atmosphere. not the rap group. there's no more of the interactions between people. clans fighting, grudges, wars, etc. that was a big part of what made the game fun, imo. rome, delor, etc. you need to either start a storyline of some kind or else ensure fighting clans are started so that, when people get in, they either pick sides or go as a neutral. then once more people start playing, it'll get more fun. another thing is, LET the players get angry about being attacked, LET them squander their turns and go around like a hotheaded git. that's fun. :P just ensure that they know how to salvage their economies after. I considered deleting my first account because I was losing money and didn't know what to do. XD

so yeah. RWL forever. I have it tattooed on a special place.

[kell]

RazorClaw  16:44:44 Posting in What we really need.

OMG he's back i couldn't believe it then he posted...... razorcube, razorcube (sung to spiderman tune)

[Holby]

as someone who has, for all intents and purposes, left, I have two problems:

1) maths. we is not good at them. well, we is, but we does not likes them. the original game required no maths and little planning. :P

There is a definite advantage for sure in having an understanding of the mathematics involved, but ya know, the only thing that has changed is player awareness about what goes on. If you didn't need maths then, you don't need it now. Peace and I failed maths in highschool, neither of us play with our calculators, we play by feel, and it's how we learned. Anyone can do the same.

2) atmosphere. not the rap group. there's no more of the interactions between people. clans fighting, grudges, wars, etc. that was a big part of what made the game fun, imo. rome, delor, etc. you need to either start a storyline of some kind or else ensure fighting clans are started so that, when people get in, they either pick sides or go as a neutral. then once more people start playing, it'll get more fun. another thing is, LET the players get angry about being attacked, LET them squander their turns and go around like a hotheaded git. that's fun. :P just ensure that they know how to salvage their economies after. I considered deleting my first account because I was losing money and didn't know what to do. XD

so yeah. RWL forever. I have it tattooed on a special place.

I agree, mostly. I think League was very good while we were around, though. The problem with people taking this seriously is that most of the ROC came through at one time or another, and no-one interested in the actual RPing side is left. A lot of those around are here for nostalgia or because they love Prom.

Which creates another problem because the gap is very hard to bridge skill-wise on your own, and its the new players who we really should be addressing, rather than trying to fix the game for the players who will be here anyway.