Balancing the game

[Shadow]

The changes so far in the interest of balancing the game have been great, many thanks to a dedicated development team :)

However, indiers still cannot hope to compete with leaderers because of one thing: open atk op. Open atk op means that indiers cannot be maxxed by an unclanned leader fighter. To even it out, open atk op should be affected by raised defenses - if defenses are up, only 1 attack is opened. The loyalty cost of the spell should also be drastically increased, rather like the heal of offensive missions (alright perhaps not that drastic).

I like the basic idea behind the spell, but in RWL almost all defense has been removed from the game, all strats must be agressive and not depend on holding land to be successful. I think there is a balance possible, a balance that is that much closer to being reached after the recent changes. With a basic limit of 21 attacks, a leader fighter will not be able to do much more damage with 21 murders than an indier would with 21 sacks. Open atk op would still give leaderers a bit of an edge, but not by the huge margin they have at the moment.

I have no idea what's in the works right now, so if this is redundant, or whiny :P, let me know

Thoughts?

[Juska]

Hmm, nerf leaders *stamp*

Has my approval.

[Ruddertail]

I agree. Cut down the affect of, or remove, attack opps. If you have land flow problems, perhaps raising the attack limit (at least on turbo) or coming up with a different attack limiting system (per attacker, based on number of attacks person has made within the last 24 hrs, etc.)

Else, make it a double edged sword, in that indies have some way (i.e, no defensive ratio calculated, just a utility ratio, or an attack type that opens attack opps, or something of the sort) of opening attack opps on leader players.

[Peace Alliance]

I wanted to make it so that attack op /always/ opens only one attack, and i also wanted the spell to take into account your OP vs their DP

[Ruddertail]

OP/DP isn't always a good measure, as leader players, in war, or while trying to lock land, will have as power an army as an indier. That's when an indy wants the advantage that attack op gives.

You could just nerf them all together, and up attack limits, or something...

[Shadow]

I wanted to make it so that attack op /always/ opens only one attack, and i also wanted the spell to take into account your OP vs their DP

i had suggested that originally but i thought it might overcomplicate things

Else, make it a double edged sword, in that indies have some way (i.e, no defensive ratio calculated, just a utility ratio, or an attack type that opens attack opps, or something of the sort) of opening attack opps on leader players.

My suggestion was meant to make defence a more integral part of the game again; simply overpowering indy would just make the problem worse I think.

[Gen. Volkov]

Don't remove open attack op, that makes unclanned invincible again. And don't change how it works. Give indy's some way to fight back.

[Shadow]

Don't remove open attack op, that makes unclanned invincible again. And don't change how it works. Give indy's some way to fight back.

perhaps a chance that an attack will not count toward the limit if you beat them by a certain margin, up to a max of say 50 attacks. I dunno, this might overcomplicate things, I'm just throwing ideas around.

[Peace Alliance]

Don't remove open attack op, that makes unclanned invincible again. And don't change how it works. Give indy's some way to fight back.

Except that how it works currently makes it so indy's /dont/ have a chance to fight back...

OP/DP isn't always a good measure, as leader players, in war, or while trying to lock land, will have as power an army as an indier. That's when an indy wants the advantage that attack op gives.

You could just nerf them all together, and up attack limits, or something...

Thats not true at all, VERY few people would have had more OP then i had DP last round.

[Shadow]

No, nobody had anywhere near Peace's DP, but with open atk op his DP could have been reduced to nothing in the space of one run. 150 murders kills 78% of your army with shield up, and 99% (yup 99) of your army without shields. The leaderer will actually gain loyalty while doing it. Meanwhile, an indier can sack for MAYBE 10% of his target's net before maxxing him. Something is wrong there.

I say again: the answer to this is not to overpower indy, it is to nerf open atk op. With this done, defense can actually start to play a role in the game again. Don't you miss the times when there could actually be Emp's on turbo?

http://www.redwallwarlords.com/forums/index.php?topic=8753.0  and http://www.redwallwarlords.com/forums/index.php?topic=8583.15 might as well be part of this one since they are both dealing with the same issues. Let's make this the official balancing discussion for now

[wolf bite]

I used to sit near the bottom of the ranks just to wait for someone to be declared unbeatable, that is when the fun starts.

Now it is all a netting game.


Wolf Bite

[Shadow]

I used to sit near the bottom of the ranks just to wait for someone to be declared unbeatable, that is when the fun starts.

Now it is all a netting game.


Wolf Bite

exactly. I would love to be able to pull off a fortress run for any length of time on turbo right now :)

[kell]

attack opp may be used by a leader to wreck an indyer but it is the only way to slam a leader which is hard as it is

[Shadow]

yes but it can be used by a leaderer to slam another leaderer. Indy has nothing

Check this out for anyone who hasnt seen it

http://www.redwallwarlords.com/forums/index.php?topic=8757.0