"Honour"

[Vengerak]

 WHY do so man insist on rattling on & on about HONOUR? Warlords don't have ''honour'', & neither do vermin. If your idea of ''honour'' is to attack those who are of greater or equal strength to you, you're stupid. That's how people get done in. 'Specially with all the tangled alliances & clan networks.

Also, you are WRONG. Real honour involved such things as samurais decapitating peasants who bumped into them on the street, people duelling one another to the death over women & such, blah blah blah. What YOU all seem to think honour is is actaually valour, & even then only in its idealistic sense.

& even if you WERE getting it right & calling it valour, you'd STILL be being stupid, because it makes bad tactical sense, & is also totally innapropriate for a game where you play a villainous warlord. Where is it that you people have seen ''honour'' implied in ''Dark Empires''? I mean, for God's sake, its almost pathetically naive & childish.

To quote the legendary Ragefur (Yet again.): "This is not Redwall: Happy Pony Raising. This is Redwall: Warlords."

[Stormclaw]

 They got their notions about honor from me, Vengy old boy. Remember what rank I was for the majority of my career (And, until... mm... April, the majority of the game itself)?

[Slynder Talderhash]

 I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but in order for all this talk of vermin not having ethics at all to be applicable to the game, everything would have to be played IC. There is barely anyone at all who plays the game IC that I know of. And as for your saying it has bad tactical sense, the opposite is true. If someone went about crushing people much weaker than themselves into the ground, then I doubt others would feel much guilt in doing the same to them. On the other hand, if someone only attacks in limited amounts, then there really is not much justification in killing them. Thus, if a conflict were to occur, then more aid could theoretically be brought to their side. The only other two motivations for people would be already existing ties, and personal gain. As for your comments about dueling and decapitation, those were examples of honour systems applied to various cultures. They were simply ways of upholding one's honour. Honour on it's own is basically a system of respect that can be gained and lost. In RWL, when a warlord attacks unfairly, he could be considered to lose his honour and the respect with which he is seen. To regain that honour, other nobler and just acts must be done. It seems to me that the definition fits quite nicely.

Valour - strength of mind or spirit that enables a person to encounter danger with firmness : personal bravery
Honour - a : good name or public esteem : REPUTATION b : a showing of usually merited respect : RECOGNITION

These definitions were taken from the Meriam-Webster Dictionary. As you can see -- well, you were wrong. Either that or you misenterpreted people.

[Vengerak]

 You're taking it to the greatest extreme, Kewima. Obviously going about crushing people does not work & nor does being friends with EVERYONE; you find a happy medium, & you try not to step on too many toes ("Be careful how you treat people on your way up, because you may meet them again on your way back down."). But this idea that you shouldn't attack people you know can easily defeat for a fairly good ''profit'' is ridiculous, as is referencing it as dishonourable or cowardly. Its all very well quoting the dictionary, but, to be honest, I can't really see what it was in those definitions that made me ''wrong'', or how it is relevant to the context in which the word is used on these boards. Certainly, though, valour seems to be the correct term for what ''honour'' is percieved as in ROC clubs, such as your own AOS.

Stormclaw, no-one likes to say it, but you got where you were by joining early. You say that Nevada was there before you, but you were out of protection before anyone else, & you crushed him before he could become anything approaching an equal to you during the Commander's Guild-Delor Independent Forces ''war''. Personally, I always had trouble with your ''by right of combat'' thing, because I couldn't see what combat you were referring to. Indeed, in the one instance where someone was allowed to rival you, you got your head kicked in. If Spigot hadn't self-destructed you would've been driven into the dirt. All he needed was two days, & even your desperate 50,000 Guard Tower tactic would've been over-ridden.

& personally, whilst you were a nice guy & fairly restrained, I don't think you were terribly honourable (Taking a gander at the ridiculous pretexts you found to attack the CG & Ragefur when he overtook you, fair & square.). For the most part, you were playing a clever game.  

[Vengerak]

 & what honour is there in bounty-killing, by the way?

Also, it occurs to me that the level of ''honour'' required to play the game well seems to draw level with that of one of the spaghetti western anti-heroes. Sort of amoral, if that's the correct spelling, rather than immoral or righteous.

[General Austin]

 *gasp*.... :o  Staying out of it.

[Trident]

 *Joins General Austin*

shutting up... shutting up.

[Stormclaw]

 I'm willing to admit that it's possible I only acheived my rank by joining early, but can you prove conclusively that I would not have obtained and held first if I'd joined later? And don't try to use the Spigot War as an example- I had discussed things ahead of time with Retto and agreed to LET HIM pass then try to kill me.

I never said there was honor in bounty-hunting. I just tried to bounty-hunt honorably, if that makes any sense at all.

I don't think you were terribly honourable (Taking a gander at the ridiculous pretexts you found to attack the CG & Ragefur when he overtook you, fair & square.)

Actually, you answered this one yourself.

Real honour involved such things as samurais decapitating peasants who bumped into them on the street, people duelling one another to the death over women & such, blah blah blah.

To be totally precise, the feudal conception of honor is basically 'anything that helps the nobility'. Read some history; In the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, the kings were backstabbing left and right, in full accordance with their code of honor.

Of course, the policies I tried to use weren't fully European; more of a wild mix between Roman and Chivalric policies.

[Slynder Talderhash]

 Oh, I have nothing against attacking others, and don't suggest that you suicide against people higher than you. The line simply has to be drawn sometimes between a reasonable amount of attacks against a relatively worthy opponent, and excessive attacks against someone just starting out. I suppose that both definitions could be applied, but honour still works in this situation. I must admit that it is misused often, though. There is a happy medium as you said, but then there are the two extremes. People who attack others who are very weak much too often, and those who almost think that attacking in itself is a bad thing to do. As it is, attacking a person a few times no longer really counts as stepping on toes. With all this taken into account, some sense of right or wrong should be applied to the game.

[Orcrist]

 On the topic of honour, I believe this would coincied with the Pansy vs. Weakling Strategy of not being honorable and by attacking those weaker than you. Raine- If you could defeat Stormy, and do better than him, why didn't you? If you want to play a game like this where it restarts monthly, go to QMT. That's where the people of the game know it so well, they make Slynder look like a newbie. In the course of one month, they reach the networth of over 150 mil even. 1 MONTH. It's a vicious place over there too. Not too sure what that do with anything but...

[~>John<~]

 Orcrist, whats QMT?

[Fenix]

 Honour? No honour?  The thing that makes me angry is stupidity.
People will attack one person over 50 times until they get next to 0 land... I only attack people that have alot of land, enabling me to grow quickly..I don't try to make enemies, or attack someone's account to the point of no return.

[General Austin]

 QMT is another version of this game, only medieval style. You can get to it bye clicking the "QM promisance" button on the bottom of any web-page in RWL besides the chat room and the forums.

[Shael of Torethevel]

 Arg, QMT is so confusing....I just started an account there, and it's going downhill faster than you can say "Elf"...

[Bloodrath]

 Ya, QTM gave me a run for the money. For a few days I was at the top but then near the middle and now I don't really bother with it. But, if you like to be very visous thats the place for you.