ROC

[Holby]

So I got bored the other day and tried to find a few old places I used to go to, and haunted Terrouge for a bit, to find many sites gone, no new ones springing up, and activity level at Terrouge substantially less than I remember. So it seems Redwall as a whole is disappearing off the internet. Terrouge for example, broadening their scope to other literature and whatnot.

I found this slightly surprising given that Jacques is still churning out books. It would indicate that the poor young people of today aren't interested anymore in poor furry little beings who live in a black and white world, and those left are the community stalwarts.

Or maybe just that Jacques has nothing new to write about, hasn't changed his style or attitude with that of his readers, and the Redwall universe as a whole is stale?

Did he lose the magic or have people changed?

[Neobaron]

Few authors are able to mature their topic/style with their readers' age progession.

Rowling is a rare exception.

[The Lady Shael]

I've brought this up several times at Terrouge, even a couple years ago, when people started noticing the decline. All of BJ's books have the same general outline. Unlikely hero with a funny sidekick, makes a journey and defeats some warlord, usually with a huge army. Meanwhile, Redwall Abbey has the same old spots to fill...Abbot, Infirmary Keeper, Friar, Recorder, Warrior...they've just become so predictable.

Right, they were like that before, but we knew the characters. We loved reading about Mattimeo, and Martin the II because they were immediately related to Matthias. Bryony was related to Dandin. Lord Brocktree was Bella's grandfather. Everyone was connected.

Since Taggerung, BJ has been making astronomical leaps in time with each book. Now it just feels like they're about random characters, kinda popped out of nowhere, and we don't really feel anything for them. In Taggerung, I think Cregga was still the badger mother (I could be wrong), so she was the only connection with the rest of the series. In Triss, I think there was some character who was distantly related to some previous warrior.

I dunno, I'd much rather read about characters we already know than about new characters. I don't know about anyone else, but I was so sure that BJ was going to fill in the gaps between all the books, and I was really disappointed to see that the last several books seem to stand alone. If he wrote another book about Mariel and Dandin, or Martin and Gonff, or any of the characters he's already created, I would definitely read it.

It could be the age thing though...I re-read Redwall a couple months ago, and it wasn't as enjoyable as it was before.

That's sad about Terrouge, I didn't know they were doing that.

[bjornredtail]

The ROC has always been a "do it yourself" affair. Back in the day, fansites were hand coded from scratch and uploaded to ad-supported free webhosts.  Then, starting with my generation, we became a community of consumers instead of creators. We simply joined and used existing sites, with very few efforts made to making these sites. At the same time, the web became vastly more complicated, with stuff like CSS and server side scripting. The youngest generation had difficulty with the new technology, and lacking credit cards lacked the ability to buy hosting, thus continuing this trend.

Of course, this doesn't entirely explain the dropping membership in the sites. Where has the next generation of young Redwall fans gone?

[The Lady Shael]

Dibbuns Against Bedtime - http://www.geocities.com/dabdibbun

[wolf bite]

I was thinking about writing a bestselling kids book about a little mouse with round glasses that goes to a wizard?s school and is given a wand to fight off evil sorcerers.  But in the first chapter the hero?s pet owl eat the hero!

When the work of Redwall first came out and the teachers found it to be well written and ?clean? for teenagers, it became mandatory reading.  Those readers told their friends about it and wanted more books to read on the characters.  Thus it became very popular.  This site, by simply having Redwall in its name, likely received more teenager Google hits a day then we do now a month. New and different books came out which the teachers required the students to read.  Those that had loved the first few Redwall books grew older and moved on with their lives.  Those ?old timers? here share their common love for the books and the companionship of others that are the same.  Our new teenage members say ?what is a red wall??

The question becomes do we look at our site from a business point of view?  We could pick up members by opening other sub forums to discuss the newest and latest fads as they pop up and have more hits and members joining.  But then we chase away those people that are here because of the common interest that originally brought them here. 

Our core members have moved out of their parents homes and have a lot of other entertainment to attract their time.  This is why I opened the ?real life? section of the forum.  A way to keep the theme of mice, but allow the members to have more than just mice keeping them in common with each other.

?Voldemort Harry Potter Hogwarts?, I bet I just doubled our daily hits by posting those names.


Wolf Bite

[The Lady Shael]

Also, the game has become less and less related to the Redwall series, focusing more on strategy and equations and features rather than role-playing or theme. The last Duels round was partially an attempt to bring more of a theme back into the game, but most of the members here were more focused on features than storyline anyway.

It's kind of sad because the new Redwall fans that do show up here are all ready to get in-character and everything, but are chased away by the Promisance veterans who always own the top spots, almost guaranteeing no competition from new members. We try to encourage them stay and ask for help, but that doesn't always happen. =/

[idunno]

And then there are some of us who have never read a redwall book and play the game because it is fun and try to get the top spots.  Good thing im not a promisance veteran who always takes up the top spots.

[Holby]

I would have to agree with most of the reasons given.

I think you make a good point, Shael, in that there's no continuation of characters, so we have no emotional tie to anyone until that single book establishes it. I really liked that in the earlier ones, there nearly always was a point of reference, and I remember after reading Mariel of Redwall nothing could have deterred me from The Bellmaker.

It is the same old formula, though, and where you may say Rowling has grown with her readers, HP chronicled that coming of age thing, Redwall is not such a scalable timeline, and it has no focus on specific characters.? As for seasoned readers who have grown up but still hold Redwall in sentimental esteem, there's nothing to entice them on any level. There are no grey characters, nothing morally ambiguous, relationships only exist on a friend or enemy level, and romance is viewed as a necessary ailment. The plots are the same, there's a whole universe to explore, but other than on useless treks, we don't really see life outside of the Abbey. Violence is the only thing where Redwall could ever stray from a 'G' rating. I think kids are more worldly than Jacques gives them credit for.

I would also add that Redwall is a wonderful series to sink into, but it's not exactly engaging from the outset due to all those descriptions. Never really have liked them. I think children in a way are spoiled in Harry Potter because it does grip you from the beginning.

I agree with wolf bite in the changing flavours of things, but I still think that a good Redwall book would get noticed, there just hasn't been one for a while.

[Shadow]

can someone tell me the titles out since taggerung? i havent been following them since

[wolf bite]

I have a few years on everyone since I was a teenager.  I recall a little known book called the Hobbit was making its second rise since it was written in 1937. Few seemed to know of it and those of us that found it on the back shelves and dusted it off forced our friends to read the book.  Next thing I knew, everyone was carrying around a copy.  Then as things do, it again slides off the top selling list and few know it existed.  Eventually some producer got the rights, found a bunch of people with pointy ears and harry feet, and made some movies.  The books made their third revival as the publishers could not print them as fast as they were selling.

So it goes with most things. Star trek only was on a few years before it was canceled because of lack of viewers.  How many movies do they have now?  Bat man, Spiderman, the green hornet, Gezz the ninja turtles have already made 3 come backs since 20 years ago when some out of work cartoonists were waiting for their pizza delivery. 

The odds are that our little mice are just waiting for their next chance to delight a new bunch of kids.  But they will not be moving their whiskers when Hogwarts is around.  Last month was the 30th anniversary of the death of Elvis Aaron Presley (August 16, 1977) and it made all the news.  It was also the 30th anniversary of the death of the last of the comic team the Marx Brothers, Groucho Marx (August 19, 1977).  Because a bigger more recent star died 3 days before Groucho, his death did not even make the news when he did die.

The day will come that mice will again delight the minds of teenagers.


Wolf Bite
{Good to see you around buddy, hope all is well}

[The Lady Shael]

Mm, let's see. After Taggerung, was Triss. I remember being so excited for that book, and then so disappointed. Then Loamhedge, High Rhulain, and Eulalia (is that out yet? I don't even know). Maybe I missed something. *looks it up* Oh, right, Rakkety Tamm after Loamhedge. I own all of the books up to High Rhulain...but I've only read up to Triss. Maybe I read Loamhedge once.

[windhound]

http://www.redwall.org/dave/library.html

# Redwall (1986)
# Mossflower (1988)
# Mattimeo (1989)
# Mariel of Redwall (1991)
# Salamandastron (1992)
# Martin the Warrior (1993)
# The Bellmaker (1994)
# Outcast of Redwall (1995)
# The Pearls of Lutra (1996)
# The Long Patrol (1997)
# Marlfox (1998)
# The Legend of Luke (1999)
# Lord Brocktree (2000)
# The Taggerung (2001)
# Triss (2002)
# Loamhedge (2003)
# Rakkety Tam (2004)
# High Rhulain (2005)

thats curious, is he still writing books?  he broke his cycle...

And people are still reading the Redwall serries, around here anyways.  Occasionally I'd drop by the JF section in my local library just to see what was out, and of the Redwall serries there'd usually be most of the books gone.  I think the library has atleast one of every book (hardback) and two or three of the most recent;  when I went to borrow High Rhulain a few days after it was released there was a waitlist

Biggest problem for the ROC is letting people know it exists.  Especially now that there's a lot more competition from Myspace, Digg, Youtube, various other sites that have gotten large
the DAB site could use a major overhaul, its an eyesore = (

[The Lady Shael]

It's not even dynamic, a member experienced in PHP is working on re-programming the barracks so it can be dynamically updated...

[kell]

ok ive read 5of them triss was bad rakkety tam was good very similir to Martin the Warrior