Rat

[Peace Alliance]

How do you think the Rat race should be set up?

I would like you to address these sort of questions:

-What should the racial spell be?
example, marten has Gold Mine which gets you more money

-What should the race bonuses be?
If you don't know what those are, here's a link to how they used to be set up: http://www.redwallwarlords.com/rwl.php?action=help&guide=races

-What should the races general stratagy(s) be?

-Any other idea's as to what to do with races?

[Peace Alliance]

High industry, heavy on barracks and markets. I believe this race should be the strongest for what is called the "indy" stratagy.

[Gen. Volkov]

I agree. Special spell should deal with troops. Maybe a short term boost to training.

[Peace Alliance]

That woudl be cool! like 100 turns with 20% boost.

[White Fang]

My two cents.

Right now, the rat is one of the few races that obviously has a theme. It gets hit pretty hard in in both Leadership and Loyalty, but gets a bonus in Training and Building. As it stands, it seems equal enough: -20% in two categories, +20% in two categories. However, it should be pointed out that a Building speed bonus is not even close to making up for an equal subtraction in most other categories, since this one's only taken advantage of occasionally, while most other categories have a constant effect.

Also, with such a high training ratio, the rat should center on building its own troops. How about making mercs +20%, building +40%, and training +30/35%? If not that, then building should at least be boosted to +30% (since, as noted before, +20% on building doesn't make up all the way for -20% on most other things).

As to the Leadership ability, its current one is pretty much worthless, since the lotto is pretty much worthless. Now, since they get such a blow on Leadership and Loyalty, it should be something that's used once every so often (as opposed to Gold-Mine or Pressgang). How about something that gives the next five or so attacks a Pillage attribute? After all, concentrating on troops make for a harder time supporting them (more barracks=less foragers/markets/tents, and more troops=higher costs). So why not a Leadership ability that helps with that? Combined with the normal Pillage, this could be rather powerful against a food/cash stocker. (Additionally, it seems to kinda' fit in with a rat's style--taking it from others instead of producing it oneself).

[Gen. Volkov]

Yeah, 100-150 turns, with a 20-30 percent boost would be excellent. And since they are indying, it should require the same ratio as raising your defences(or whatever it's called) does.

BTW White Fang, the +'s and -'s need to add up to zero. Or at least should. That's why rat is built the way it is.

[White Fang]

*Shakes head.*

The bonuses and the drawbacks should equal zero; some +'s are a disadvantage, while others are an advantage (same with -'s). If you read what I said, I gave reasoning for why building could be a little higher--it's not worth as much as some of the other stats.

[Gen. Volkov]

I did read it, but you give no drawbacks except mercs, which doesn't add up to zero at all, when taken with the rest of rat. Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs Fang.

[White Fang]

Maybe I was a little unclear when I posted it, but I was only posting proposed alterations to it. In other words, the Loyalty and Leadership drawbacks (-20%) would still be in effect.

[Gen. Volkov]

Ah. Well Rat is mostly zeros, it's got -20 in loyalty and leadership, and +20 in build and training, so with your additions, that's still +10 overall, not zero.

-20 loy + -20 lead + -20 merc(effectively) + 40 train + 30 build = +10 Still a +5 with a +35 to training instead of 40.

[White Fang]

Yes, I realize that. As I said before, within the proposal, I gave reasoning for giving build a little extra boost--it's just not worth as much.

EDIT: If the +'s and -'s must add up to zero, then simply read it as if the proposed building increase was lowered until everything added up to zero.

[Gen. Volkov]

Problem solved. :-D It has to add up to 0. A the merc cost increase makes up for the +40 to train, cause it would effect selling mercs as well.

[Ruddertail]

Aye. Rat's your indy race.

Strong bonus to indy (30% Sounds good). Bonus to build isn't all that bad, though. It helps save turns when building. Still, indy > build, unless you're trying to guardmass. In that case, the bigger the build bonus, the better. But that goes better with Stoat's + 16% to defense...

A troop production bonus spell would be good. Another possiblity is something that allows troops to be sold for higher prices on the Mercs, which is indy's chief revenue generator - Merc selling.


Rat should be high in indy, be able to sell on the mercs for good cash, and be decent in offense (no bonus necessary, but no - 25% offense stuff, either.) Def doesn't matter, along with anything involving leaders or markets. Would be nice not to have exorbitant costs, and food production/consumption is somewhat important. Again, no massive problems, their, though minor deficits don't hurt.

[Peace Alliance]

Indy races are going to get evened out by the following:

workers: you'll get way more workers, i'm thinking about getting this added in as a race variable so i can put it high on indy races and low on leaders.

mercenaries: Available mercenaries are going to be cut drastically. This means that producing army's with barracks ill be far more valuable to the game. Leader races can make lots of money... but it will be more efficient for them to give that money to an indier to produce the army.

[Shadow]

i like these ideas a lot, especially the worker boost/variable