Major announcement!!! Staff change!!!

[Peace Alliance]

Beatles... you're input on code changes is always welcome :-D
(now thats what you wanted to hear right?)

We love ya man!

[The Beatles]

Excellent! Only about 54 left, by my latest estimate.

Not trying to knock your code or anything.

[Peace Alliance]

Clearly you missed my post...

it was on the second page.

[Devari]

Mm, seriously, did Shael get the list of Promisance (not RWL-specific) vulnerabilities that Beatles compiled? I think nev/bjorn sent them... But I see no mention here. 'Course, there are quite a few BAXX-specific problems which are not covered by that list.

At risk of sounding... combative, can we expect to see BAXX re-open the source (as is required) any time soon? I'm pretty darn sure that Retto made SOME changes since April 7th, 2004. Besides the whole GPL issue, the more open the source, the more potential for outside help... ;)

[The Lady Shael]

I did get them. I haven't been able to do much today because I've fallen a little behind on schoolwork due to spending all of yesterday becoming more familiar with RWL's code.

[White Fang]

I hope I'm not out of line by saying this, but...Beatles, do you really have to come over here just to drop negative/insulting comments? Seriously, what's the point?

[Scarwake]

Devari,

As of right now we(the staff) have been informed by Retto himself that we are not required to re-open the current source code that we are using right now due to previous security issues.  This was cleared between Retto and the Original Writer of the Prominance code whom said that we did not have to show the code because the ones demanding to see it were the ones trying to hack the game.

So, as of right now we are not required to re-open the source code for viewing by the permission of the Original Writer of the Prominance Code.  As for any future codes of RWL being open source I have no control of and you will have to consult with the admins, as we are currently researching and examining the copyright on the code so we do not violate any legal issues in the future.

If you have any further concerns please direct them to Wolf Bite, Head of the Forum Department.  The other admins will be glad to answer any questions as well.

[bjornredtail]

Reguardless of the legal requirements of relaseing the code, distribuateing the current source is a good idea for a number of reasons. One, downstream users running the BAXX codebase on thier may be effected by bugs that have alreay been corrected in the current verison. Two, distibuateing the soucre code allows people to review it and aid in development. As Devari it could bring in some outside help. Three, it is the right thing to do. Many others contibuated to this before Boze and Retto ever go thier hands on it.. Is it really morrally right to take thier work without paying back into the community?

[DevariNotLoggedIn]

Scarwake,

I was under the impression that BAXX was GPL. However, after downloading the last released version, it appears to not be (according to the NEWLICENSE file). Better change the Download page, though, it certainly mislead me in to thinking the source was governed by the GPL, when it most certainly is not!

Reguardless of the legal requirements of relaseing the code, distribuateing the current source is a good idea for a number of reasons. One, downstream users running the BAXX codebase on thier may be effected by bugs that have alreay been corrected in the current verison. Two, distibuateing the soucre code allows people to review it and aid in development. As Devari it could bring in some outside help. Three, it is the right thing to do. Many others contibuated to this before Boze and Retto ever go thier hands on it.. Is it really morrally right to take thier work without paying back into the community?

Mm...  I'd like to just voice my agreement with what bjorn has stated.

Pardon the double post (can't edit my guest post), and if this could be merged...?


[edit] Merged.
-Shael

[The Lady Shael]

Maybe if people would stop taking an aggressive approach in letting us know our game has bugs, we'll consider. What's the point in sharing our code when hackers prevent playing the game from being fun?

[bjornredtail]

These 'Hackers' will discover the security problems reguardless of rather or not the current source is distirubated. Sure, hideing the source makes such a discovery a bit more diffacult, but still a long ways from being impossible. So the bad guys will still find exploits, yet the good guys, friendly people on the outside cannot offer a patch any problems that may arise. In this way, distribuateing the source code is acctually good for security.

When was the last big breach that interrupted gameplay anyways? I belive it was nearly two years ago, if I am not mistaken. So people have stopped "taking an aggressive approach in letting us know our game has bugs".

EDIT: SEE http://www.redwallwarlords.com/forums/index.php?topic=5144.0 . I belive that's the last incident that disrupted gameplay.

[wolf bite]

NO, I don?t think that was the last, there have been many since then. The last was someone breaking in, then making themselves an admin. They went further into the code and gave themselves limitless turns. Then deleted of all people ME as a demonstration of their supposed superiority. Let me think, I believe that person used their own name, had their IP traced and further admitted the crime. Humm, who was that again ? let me think ? oh yes, it was Beatles, the ruler of Frost and Flame. The biggest advocate in us giving him our code when he himself says there is nothing in it that is worth his time to read. So why would someone want it so bad?

Now then, are you guys very happy crashing our party? Can?t people from another server find anything positive to say or is the intent to try to disrupt? How would you feel about people flaming your site ON your site? If you want to take this outside, I would be happy to. However this is nether the time nor the place.

I truly believe there are sincere people that want the best for all, but smashing our door down to prove good intentions does not go far.

Wolf Bite

[bjornredtail]

NO, I don?t think that was the last, there have been many since then. The last was someone breaking in, then making themselves an admin. They went further into the code and gave themselves limitless turns. Then deleted of all people ME as a demonstration of their supposed superiority. Let me think, I believe that person used their own name, had their IP traced and further admitted the crime. Humm, who was that again ? let me think ? oh yes, it was Beatles, the ruler of Frost and Flame. The biggest advocate in us giving him our code when he himself says there is nothing in it that is worth his time to read. So why would someone want it so bad?

First off, Beatles completely documented and reported this exploit. The deletion of your account was unintentional, and was the only acction that Beatles took that disrupted general gameplay. By doing what he did, Beatles made your code more secure and caused very little harm. Reguardless, this incident occured quite some time ago if I am not mistaken. Given the minimal damage caused by this trespass and the time elapased since, would it be possible forgive our staffer? Addtionally, could you refer to any threads involved in it?

On the second count as to why we, the community, wants the code to be distribauted, I request that you read my previous post.

Now then, are you guys very happy crashing our party? Can?t people from another server find anything positive to say or is the intent to try to disrupt? How would you feel about people flaming your site ON your site? If you want to take this outside, I would be happy to. However this is nether the time nor the place.

We are not flameing anyone. There is a diffrence between critism and simply insluting a person. We are doing the former. I see nothing inherantly rude or disrepectful with pointing out flaws in a person's work.

Futhermore we have taken many actions to help you guys out. We gave you a listing of known security flaws that were found and corrected in our game so that you may have a chance to correct them before they may be exploited. We have come fourth and posted many suggestions to improve operations here. We have even offered to help adapting our code for use on RWL if you desired it. Are these really the actions of someone who is out to disrupt your orgnizations?

[Gen. Volkov]

A note to the admins, the post before mine was written and posted while I was writing this one, and does not constitute a double attack on wolf bite or anyone else. It's simply my thoughts on the matter.


Wolf, I think you are overreacting a bit. Bjorn (nevadacow in a former life I believe, though that may not endear you to him) was not around at that time and thus does not know about Beatles break in. Beatles was demonstrating the giant holes in BAXX. Things have probably since been exploited by others, because there are still holes. Do not reject their help just because you feel they are being overaggressive about it. FAF has some very fine coders, and I while I'm sure Shael can code, more is better in this case, otherwise you run into one of the same problems we had with Retto, namely one coder who can't be around 100% of the time. I will not sit around and watch RWL slowly swirl around the bowl because of personal animosity. Shael, I thank you for your efforts in coding, but can you honestly tell me you will be here 100% of the time? Of course not, you have college. The faster we get RWL back up and running, the more chance we have of reviving this place, I may not play anymore, but you know I'm an old diehard when it comes to leaving completely. But if things go on as is much longer you will start too see more and more longtime diehard members like me give up and leave in frustration. You may be glad to see my contentious person gone from these forums, but when it's down to you three Admins because you refused help here and now, what are you going to do? I love this place, and I enjoy my time here immensely, and I really really do not want to see it die, so please can we try to find a compromise here that allows these FAF fellows to help out? Don't let RWL die over personal animosity too Beatles or any of the FAFer's.

And if you feel I'm being overdramatic, or are offended, please at least think about what I said before you yell at me. I'm not trying to insult, but my passion may have gotten the best of me.

[bjornredtail]

A note to the admins, the post before mine was written and posted while I was writing this one, and does not constitute a double attack on wolf bite or anyone else. It's simply my thoughts on the matter.


Wolf, I think you are overreacting a bit. Bjorn (nevadacow in a former life I believe, though that may not endear you to him) was not around at that time and thus does not know about Beatles break in. Beatles was demonstrating the giant holes in BAXX. Things have probably since been exploited by others, because there are still holes. Do not reject their help just because you feel they are being overaggressive about it. FAF has some very fine coders, and I while I'm sure Shael can code, more is better in this case, otherwise you run into one of the same problems we had with Retto, namely one coder who can't be around 100% of the time. I will not sit around and watch RWL slowly swirl around the bowl because of personal animosity. Shael, I thank you for your efforts in coding, but can you honestly tell me you will be here 100% of the time? Of course not, you have college. The faster we get RWL back up and running, the more chance we have of reviving this place, I may not play anymore, but you know I'm an old diehard when it comes to leaving completely. But if things go on as is much longer you will start too see more and more longtime diehard members like me give up and leave in frustration. You may be glad to see my contentious person gone from these forums, but when it's down to you three Admins because you refused help here and now, what are you going to do? I love this place, and I enjoy my time here immensely, and I really really do not want to see it die, so please can we try to find a compromise here that allows these FAF fellows to help out? Don't let RWL die over personal animosity too Beatles or any of the FAFer's.

And if you feel I'm being overdramatic, or are offended, please at least think about what I said before you yell at me. I'm not trying to insult, but my passion may have gotten the best of me.

I agree... Though I must point out that I was aware of the fact that Beatles once exploited the $trplist bug. Though I am somewhat ignorant on when it occured.