Does Bush Suck?

[Barkclaw2]

Totally and definitely yes. For reasons known and yet unknown to me. There's just something about him. Clinton was good. Bush? gives me "bad vibes." Heehee, there's this funny show about Bush on Comedy Central by Mat Stone and Trey Parker, our beloved creators of South Park.

[The Lady Shael]

Just a warning to anyone who plans to participate in this topic: if this discussion gets ugly, I'm killing it. Ugly discussions are not allowed to live.

[Aqualis]

"Bad vibes"? What does that mean. You heard a lot of bad things about him so you began to believe he was bad.

I suppose we're losing the war in Iraq too.

[windhound]

clinton was good?
lol.
just..  lol.  do your homework plz

and no.  bush does not 'suck'
the media loves to drag out the worst in people and put it on display, charactures if you will

keep in mind that the media is bias.  every single newsource has a bias, and ofcourse tv shows have an even greater one
if you're gathering all your hate and 'bad vibes' from merely what is placed infront of you, again, go do some reading.  go watch c-span for a while.  do some research
you'll find that there are ofcourse two sides to everything
noone is perfect, some decisions were shown to be poor choices
the infamous "mistakes were made"

[Gen. Volkov]

*Eye twitch* Could Bush have done a better job? Certainly. Is he worse than Clinton? NO. Clinton is the reason our economy is in the dumps. He did NOTHING for 8 years. The prievious presidents adminstration determines what happens in the next presidents term. The economy, as a result of Clinton's policies, started to go sour and the end of his term/beginning of BUsh's term. Then 9/11 happened. Now, Bush's policies from his first term are starting to make themselves felt, and look what happens? The economy starts to perk up. As to the war in Iraq... we beat them in a matter of weeks. We own the country. This right now? This is Arabs being stupid. We are trying to help them get back on their feet and not end up with another Saddam, or possibly Saddam himself, in control, and they are bombing us and anyone who works with us. The militants themselves, along with Iraq's own army, have probably caused more damage to the general populace than WE did with our "Shock and Awe" campaign. We didn't blow bridges, damns, and take out electricity. The Iraqi's themselves did that. This from the people who are "defending" their country. Yeah. Right. Pull the other one, it's got bells on. Most of this is my opinion, so any logical fallacies or gaps in background are intentional. *Grin* Also, the thing about the term before determining the next one is true. Read and judge for yourself.

[Neobaron]

Currently Listening to:
"Dirty Laundry"

---

noobs who thrive on grammatical errors in bush's speeches rather than hard facts and statistics need to stfu.

'nuff said.

[wolf bite]

The General and windy both hit the 2 major points right on the head. I would like to add to both of them.

The news is one sided, there are reasons for this. First the democrats have purchased many of the news media in order to slant their opinions to the general public under the disguise that it is news. They pick what stories they will run and what guests they will interview. If you listen closely you will hear that they simply quote some nobody that has an opinion. Headline: ?Mr. Nobody says that that he ?believes? Bush is trying to kill black people.? Who cares, this is not news! I think the most ridiculous ?news? broadcast was when they were interviewing an unknown guy who worked on the democratic campaign who now wrote a book how Bush hates his father and sees Sodom as a father figure, and that is the only reason we went to war. The LA Times newspaper is in bankruptcy right now because so many people canceled the paper do to the lack of getting any straight news from it. And as far as the national polls, they call people at home during the day to ask what they think of Bush. Gee, who is home during the day besides the unemployed and those on welfare? Besides, the way they ask the questions are not fair. ?Do you think Bush can do a better job?? Well yea, and I think God could too, but that does not mean I think he is doing a ?bad job.? Just because 50 people that have no life can stand outside of a building, and the news does a close-up so it looks like there may be thousands of protesters, is also not an example of the people that had better things to do that day. This is NOT an example of the people! I have heard that 70% of the Americans are really republicans. Just look at the response to this poll and you see it does not fit what the news is telling you.

As far as Clinton being great, it is laughable. The guy was funded by China! And in return, he made deals with China to give them YOUR tax money. This is treason! You hear how Bush is giving contracts to a company called Halliburton, did you know that Clinton gave more contracts to them at a greater profit? This list is too long to get into, but trust that the overspending of Clinton?s time has almost destroyed America as a national power. At least President Bush does what he feels is the best for Americans and the American economy, unlike Clinton who thought what was best for his own wallet, his ego, and other parts.  It is true that we are trying to recover from some major economic difficulties, but they started way before Bush took office, they were just hidden. Rather like you loving your mom because she bought you a brand new bike on a credit card for Christmas, then hating your dad in January because all the money was spent and he has to cut back on food to pay the credit card bill.


Wolf Bite

[Ereptor]

When i first saw the topic on "does bush suck" I thought to myself, here we go again.? Many times i feel like the only one out there besides my family that believes otherwise.? I also remember ( this is off topic ) when i was in 8th grade and my principle and teacher asked us to raise our hand if you thought O.J. Simpson was guilty during the trail.? I raised my hand and then looked around classroom and found that i was the only one with my hand up.? A year later none of the other students recall the incident.? But it is fresh in my mind, and as most believe and as later found by a civil trial O.J. was guilty.? The media has a HUGE influence on us.? So dont feel bad because most of us have been swayed one way or another by the media at one point or another.? I found it funny how when gas prices went up for a couple months that the media revved up the bandwagon and everyone jumped on.? Quotes like "President's ratings hit new low in poll" "gas prices way too high" "Does the bush administration have a plan or not" dotted the headlines.? The gas prices are down now at least in my neck of the woods.? The media unfortunately gets excited when they see any change and while it affects us all temporarily unfortunately it seems that the brunt of it all has gone against the Bush administration.?
? Next we have had the war in Iraq.? Democrats are accusing the bush administration of giving false information I.E. where are the wmds?? Or going in at the wrong time!? Or having low troop levels.? And when they down the president and the war with harsh words saying our boys are dying for no reason many democrats say, oh that's just democracy at work.? I disagree.? Number one saying our boys are dying for no reason is saying a lot more.? It is saying we at home dont care what you guys in iraq are doing at all.? Calling our army butchers and saying that we are destroying iraqi peace during the night with useless raids HAS to have some affect on moral.? They have the right to say it yes, but they cant have their cake and eat it too.? Either your for our boys or your against our boys.? You cant be against the war and say your for our troops and then go out and say those things.?
? ?Second what does the wrong time mean?? I cant think of any war being fought at the right time?? America in the past wasn't allowed to pick our battles until it was too late.? WWI WWII were to late.? Vietnam and Korea were learning curves.? And dessert storm and Iraq show that we may have figured out that if we sense something going wrong we should step in.? We are the only super power left in our world today.? We have the responsibility to see that the holocaust and dictators with mass amounts of power are not left to plot and plan and bring chaos and war throughout our world.? I believe what we have done in iraq is awesome.? We have given millions of people a chance to have the a life outside of the realm of a dictor and i believe we have made the united states and the world a safer place.? If those things are bad then i rather be called evil and do what i believe is the right thing than do evil because i will be labled if i dont.

On top of this all i think your poll is a little bias because there are 3 things to vote that he is bad 1 that is a maybe and 2 that  says he is not. 

[wolf bite]

*Again feeling the need to jump in on a good point*

There are many good reasons to have gone to war, most seem not to be talked much about. To me one of the most important ones has existed since the beginning of time. If someone declares war on your empire, you then go to war, they then surrender under conditions, they then don?t follow those agreed conditions, you go back to war. Simple! After the gulf war where a Iraq declared war on us, they then surrendered under conditions, they then did not follow those conditions including the FACT that they imported materials to make WMD, we then had the full right and obligation to go back to war. Whether or not we find where those WMD are or if they were exported before we could look for them, is not what this is all about.

But then there is even a deeper obligation, the viewpoint of the American system. Lets use this game as an example. Probably the 2 most feared people in this game are Ereptor and myself. Everyone knows that a back-stab or sneak attack on one of us will result in an unrelenting beating to the last of our resources. Thus any attack that someone plans they have to double think what the repercussions may be. The result is that rarely does someone knowingly make an uncalled for attack. Gee, I have sat as emperor with NO army and had NO attacks for months. So should it be how other nations feel about America. Before chopping off the head of one of our ambassadors, think about the bomb that will be dropped on the homes of the aggressors. In defense of your people, turning the other cheek is not an option worth risking.


Wolf Bite

[Badrang the Tyrant]

Bush is doing a great job IMO.  Of course, there are a few people who could handle situations better than him, but there are a greater number who would lose their heads the second they heard they won the Presidency of the United States.  As for the war in Iraq, do you see the soldiers complaining on TV about being there (Ok, you might see a few, but I haven't)?  The US has an army composed entirely of volunteers.  'Nuff said.

[Peace Alliance]

I'll be brief...

Bush invaded a nation under false pretences. he lied to his nation, over and over, heck he still does. He, yes HIM personally, murdered thousands apon thousands of people. He showed no regard for helping out the rest of the world. in fact he showed little regard to helping his own nation.

this isn't "IMO" this is the truth. You can spend years trying to figure out ways to excuse him from what he has done and is doing, but i personally don't believe he deserves it.

:-)

[Barkclaw2]

Actually, I think the one good thing he did was to bring us to war. Come on, they crashed a plane into the twin towers. Besides, they're making it a better place in Iraq. It's 3rd world right now, but the army's helping. If we went there without guns, they'd blow up more of our soldiers then they are now. Excuse me for saying so, but the residents of Iraq are just plain ignorant. If I were president, I'd be torn about hearing all those people dying in the twin towers. I couldn't be able to resist wanting war.
All the people whining about how the soldiers have been there too long, but I don't think we've nearly been there at all long enough. It takes time to help a country that's trying to blow you up while you're doing so. Ok, so I totally think he lied about there being yellowcake in Iraq. It was a good cover up for going to war. That's probably not good enough excuse for you, is it?

[wolf bite]

Thanks Peace for the perfect example of empty statements, which are not based on any facts, even ignoring conflicting facts, as quoted by the left wing propaganda.

Lets go right down the lane:

Bush invaded a nation under false pretences.
I think I gave a perfectly good reason to invade above. But if you want to focus only on the sup issue of WMD, Kerry and Kennedy looked at the exact same reports Bush did and believed Iraq had not shipped them out of the country yet. Also someone SAYS that Bush COULD have looked at other documents too, but then there are NO facts.

He lied to his nation, over and over, heck he still does.
Name one fact he lied on without quoting some democrats who is basing his statement on opinion. Go ahead, try.

He, yes HIM personally, murdered thousands upon thousands of people.
Bush is in the fighting field? Since when is the commander of any nation accused of murder in defense of their county? And how can you use the word murder in war? Only if you count those civilians that knowingly stood next to known military targets that got bombed after we first did a warning fly by could you stretch what was suicide, or stupidity, to the word murder

He showed no regard for helping out the rest of the world.
I wish he would show less regard for the rest of the world, for some reason all the money and aid that he sends on my tax dollar seems not to be talked about in the news. His large amount of help he has given to people of other countries is maybe the one area that he upsets me.

in fact he showed little regard to helping his own nation.
Any facts on this? He has tried to allow Americans to have the same social security benefits that congress gave to them selves. He has tried to make life more comfortable to companies so they will hire within the united states so merchandise will be made here and help lines will not all have an accent from India.

All this comes down to is that people only read the headlines. Headlines seem to be mostly bias quotes from democrats. Many great news stories can never even be found in the papers or news broadcasts.


Wolf Bite

[windhound]

no
he never -lied- about there being weapons of mass destruction in Iraq
all the inteligence he was given supported that notion.  to -lie- is to say there were WOMD with the knowledge that there were none
to say there were WOMD without certainty may have been misleading, but not exactly a lie
hell, iraq is HUGE.  they denied weapon inspectors from the un acess.  if they knew people would search for their weapons, they'd hide them.  it is still possible they exist, just buried or hidden

but yeah.  war is never exactly a good thing.
but now that we're in it, we cant leave until we're sure its not going to revert as soon as we pull out.  now that the extremests there have a much more reason to hate us, if they got back into power they could build womd or buy them from, say, north korea..

War kills people.  Thats a given.  What would you have had us do Peace?  Say it was an accident the airplanes hit the towers?  Iraq may or may not have been the ideal target, but terrorism isnt like conventional war.  there is no set target.
Yes.  it is sad that soldiers die in war. 
but according to the wikipedia (not the best source, but a quick one) the leading causes of death in the US in 2002:
    * Heart Disease: 696,947
    * Cancer: 557,271
    * Stroke: 162,672
    * Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 124,816
    * Accidents (unintentional injuries): 106,742
    * Diabetes: 73,249
    * Influenza/Pneumonia: 65,681
    * Alzheimer's disease: 58,866
    * Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 40,974
    * Septicemia: 33,865

not one comes close to the 2k soldiers killed in iraq.  people die, our soldiers die to protect the freedom soo many take for granted. 


(wolf posted before me, covered some of what I typed above, but yeah.  one last thing to note is that the media as a whole is liberal.  there are some conservative publications, but most are more liberal than not and will take the advantage to poke bush when they have the chance)

[wolf bite]

Sorry windy, beat you to it. But then I can add a neat point I heard the other day. A higher % of amry aged people died in car accadents then for any reason in Iraq.


Wolf Bite

Edit: fixed typo --WB