Full story.

[Gen. Volkov]

 Ok. So it took wolf bite to let me in on my own clans activities, but poor wool pulled over his eyes Volkov has finally gotten the whole story. Apparently Juska has been taking advantage of my rather lenient clan policies to sack the heck out of people. Wolf pointed out to me that he had sacked many people 21 and 15 times, and though Juska denies wolf was online, he did sack wolf 21 and 15 times respectively. At the time of this, I thought I was being given the runaround when I messages Nohc asking him why he killed so many of Juskas rats. Apparently the reason NOHC told me to "Ask juska" is because he thought I was supported Juska's insane attack patterns. I don't have time to keep tight tabs on my members, I go to college full time and I have a social life. I check every once in awhile, but the last time I did, Juska wasn't doing this. I do not support 21 sacks on people, or anything like that. If you have a problem with one of my members, TELL ME! FOR GODS SAKE! I had no CLUE that he was doing this. Juska seems to have been acting as big a bully as Wrath's leader, Deathclaw, was being to me. All of this would be partly my fault, I take the blame for the problem, but if a clan member does something you don't like, TELL ME! The earlier hassle with ereptor not withstanding, I am NOT trying to provoke war, my clan rules specifically STATE this. I'm sorry this got so far because everyone assumed I knew everything and supported it, it is my fault that I didn't keep closer tabs on my members, so if you wish to yell at me and denounce me for the idiot I've been, go ahead. I prolly don't deserve to run a clan and in the future will mostly likely be independent. I was just rather dissapointed when my idea collapsed for what I was originally going to do with my clan. It wasn't supposed to be all politics, is was gonna be simple, we dominate, you mess with us, we kick your behind. Can't do that with 3 or four members. That's a result of me recruiting people who A) Commit, but don't join and B ) Thinking I have more people than I actually did when time cam to clan up. So it resulted in this mongrel clan I have with really lenient rules. I'm very close to just disbanding. If it does live on, it will be a totally revamped w00f you see. For one thing, I will renew all previous Alliances if any still wish it. So that's the whole story from my side of it. I put judgement of my incompetence in your hands RWLers.

So I have one final request, of all of you and Juska, LAY IT OUT FOR ME. Nohc, what did Juska do to provoke you into annihilating so many of his rats? I would NEVER have gone along with this If I hadn't gotten either no response or the runaround from EVERYONE I talked too. Apparently my trust in Juska was misplaced. If I don't get the full story from him, he WILL be hung out to dry. I'm a reasonable guy. Don't assume I'm not just because of one response. And again for GOD"S sake! TELL ME! Thank you.

-A very tired, very exasperated Volkov.

[Juska]

 First off, I don't ever remember sackign Wolf Bite 21 times and then turning around and saking him another 15, I did sack Wolf once it may have been up to 15 times, but I know I didn't waste 21 attacks sackign him. He was not online when I started, but was popping on and off while I did it and happened to pop on when I was about halfway through. Wolf was not running turns, so I don't give a care you can't just sit online and yell at people.

If the news shearch went back far enough I could prove my claims, but as of what I can see over the last 13 days I've attacked Wolf less than 20 times no mroe than 10 in a run and none were sacks. Maybe Wolf should check his news again.

As for Nohc, he killed my rats I got mad, he didn't apologize and used me as a dump off for his excess rats which I didn't appreciate so I killed him, Wrath seems to think that was a clan affair and will be killing Woof at 10pm tonight, or at least me. There's nothing else to say, I guess my leaving Woof to save myself today will mark the end of my days with it.

[wolf bite]

 Gee Juska, you missed is point, as I was afraid that you might. I never said it was THIS week nor only about me. But then I invite everyone to check Juska?s news for the last 100 attacks. Click ?attacker? so you only pull up his attacking record. You will see that

Jan 13
14 on Alive and Amplified (#17)
8 on wolf bite
21 on Bloodwake

Jan 9th:
21 on Alive and Amplified (#17)
17 on Holby
8 on windy
2 on wolf bite

Jan 6th:
4 on Alive and Amplified (#17)
4 on windy
1 on Imperial Army (#23)
and that is as far as his record goes back.

Weeks ago, as Gorg Gaz, I was on line sacked by him on 2 different times. Also I was on line watching Holby taking his turns as Juska was on line sacking him.

The point being that most if not all of those attacks are Sack. He is not at war with all these people. Juka does often attack on line. Attacking over 8 times can start a war. Sacking can start a war.

His ?Indy? strategy is not self-sufficient. He must find a target that he can break, then keep attacking the same person. He must use Sack constantly to support his horde. He must catch people when they have land, and attacking on line is the best assurance no one else will get it first. Maybe that is what he needs to do. But that does not excuse how vicious it is.

The clan is responsible for the players actions. Juska has been wiping people out for the last 2 months. His clan has been taking the thrashing of Juska?s actions, but receiving no benefit.

The reason this came up is because of the pending war between the Wrath and Woof clans. Woof was willing to defend Juska?s actions, as they defended Juska in the killing of Nohc. Woof was looking for allies if this war was to happen. I simply pointed out to the General that Woof?s actions (caused by Juska) and over actions (on Nohc) does not make them the good guys. The General is man enough to be willing to reevaluate the situation, look into whether he had his assumptions wrong, then take the responsibility to correct them if he finds that a member of his clan started this problem. A very difficult, but noble, thing to do.

Now Juska jumps out of the clan saving himself but leaving those venerable that were willing to defend him to their deaths.

I ask that any Wrath / Woof war is delayed until Woof?s leader is properly informed as to what he is fighting for. Any information about Juska?s past attacks, and the facts of what this war are about would be helpful.


Wolf Bite

[Deathclaw]

 I was raped by Volkov and cloud for planning this war. Now I'm supposed to hold back?

Cloud leaves Wrath to join an enemy... he deserves death, but I'll delay a war for now unless he attacks me any more.. thanks, cloud for being a traitor and then killing about 2 and a half million stoats.

Edit: Wolf, what the war is about it two members of Woof killed a member of Wrath. To me, that is more than just cause for a war. If the rest of Woof doesn't want death, they can set Wrath to ally while we kill the two members in question (Juska and Death Eater), then perhaps even a real alliance can be put in place if an agreement is made.

[wolf bite]

 It can not been seen who started a gang fight by looking at the last punch.

The General is willing to stop and look at the facts to see if he was misguided in his actions. I have only been in on this since last night, so I agree that my information may be very wrong about what you guys have going on. This is what seems to be happening in reverse order.

Woof wants to kill Wrath because Woof found out about Wrath?s plans to kill Woof.

Wrath made plans to kill Woof because members of Woof killed Nohc.

Woof killed Nohc because Nohc killed 10 million of Juska?s rats.

Nohc killed 10 million of Juska?s rats in retal for ... something?


I may very well be wrong about the above, please correct it and add to it, so both sides know what they are fighting for. You may find more of an agreement then a fight.  Besides, Juska has jumped ship leaving Woof to fight Wrath on their own. Again, I could be wrong, but I see this as misinformation from Juska to his clan that caused his clan to defend someone that maybe they should not have. If this is true, then it would be as unfair for Wrath to fight Woof for a missunderstanding as it would have been for me to have fought Wrath a few weeks ago based on wrong information.


Wolf Bite

[Deathclaw]

 Woof nearly killed me. I can't see putting a stop to this war without recieving reimbursement, and if Woof accepts either member back we will have to kill those members.

Cloud deserves death for leaving Wrath for no reason. I have reason to believe he leaked information to Woof about the plans, otherwise how would they know?

To stop this war, Wrath deserves reimbursement to everyone hit majorly, including Nohc. I lost a lot of troops and land in this and want repayment in some form, either aid or their deaths.

[wolf bite]

 Step one: Prove them in the wrong

Step two: Work out a treaty


Wolf Bite

[Juska]

 Wolf Bite, why don't you shut up about things you don't understand?

I attack like crazy because I need land to keep up with the crazy Marten's. I can break any empire in the game save maybe PA(though I doubt it). The only empire I have ever sacked this round was you and that was because I ended up with 80 some turns max loan and no cash, and I plain don't like you very much.

Sackign gets you less than 1/2 the land regular attacking does.

My indy is totally self-sufficient so why don't you go back to playing with your little leaders, and hording cash.

Why don't you go play indy for once Wolf Bite? You wanna know why? Because you can't. My rat massing strat is on the forums, check it out, play it, change some things as I have and then come back.

Wrath, Gen. and Cloud did nothing to you so do not kill them, if you do then Nohc will not be the last to fall.

PS: I guess Wrath finally figured out I was reading their forums.

[Deathclaw]

 *deleted*

[Gen. Volkov]

 Juska, had you attacked Nohc in any major way previous to his attack on you? If not, then while I admit killing is a little extreme, Nohc was in the wrong too. As I said, I don't want you to die Juska, and I don't want you out of woof for good. It was just if I found out that you were the main cause for all this. I may be wrong yet again, but so far the response has not been wonderful.

Deathclaw, yes we hit you way down, but did not kill you. It was a preemptive strike because you were planning a kill run on all of w00f. You have changed your tune a bit, but kill two members for ones death is not acceptable. That's just deliberately trying to weaken us. Perhaps you see us as a threat? I don't know. I am willing to pay some reparations if we can get this cleared up, but I repeat, NOhc, and Juska have to tell me the WHOLE story of EXACTLY what passed between them before I can make a decision.

How is that in anyway helpful to the situation DC?

[Deathclaw]

 The two would be killed because they both participated equally in the kill, the only difference being one delivered the last attack, thus getting the kill. They both should die.

[Gen. Volkov]

 If any should die let it be only one. I'm still waiting for the full story. Two deaths is just not acceptable. Death Eater may have helped, but he didn't record the kill. And killing Nohc was Juska's idea. It remains to be seen whether he had justification for it. I shouldn't have to be explaining this, my first post lays all this out in detail. Juska's response to it is a little lacking in detail.

[Juska]

 I did nothing to Nohc beforehand that could in any way warrant those attacks on my empire, I gave him two very clear options if he wanted ot avoid death. 1. Restore my rats to what they were or 2. Apologize

I just don't like how your so quick to accept Wolf Bite's view of our clans affairs.

[wolf bite]

 Arrg, stop bringing me into this and expressly stop misquoting me. I out right have said that I don?t know what happened within your clan. All I said was that your aggressiveness may have been the spark that started all this. And if you only used Sack on me because you don?t like me, then why were you using it on Gaz before anyone knew that I was him? But getting away from the half truths, I am simply trying to avoid a war if it is to take place for the wrong reasons. It seems Juska still wants the war, wonderful, he left the clan. Maybe both sides should know what they are fighting about, that was simply my point to the General, and he agreed that he should know why there is a war. Maybe they have a great reason for a war and it should go on! Maybe there was some mutual mistakes and both sides need to step back. Maybe one side was deeply in the wrong and should pay retribution. But none of this matters until there are facts which no one seems to want to post.


Wolf Bite

[Juska]

 Wolf, Wrath members had already put a face with your name before I did those attacks. If you don't know anything then don't post anything.