Game Balences

[Peace Alliance]

 I propose that we take a quick look at how the game is balenced after the latest changes.

pressgang... has basicly been crippled, making wildcats no where near the overpowering race it was before. this is a good thing, however, a lot of people think it was crippled much more then it should have been. some say it now costs too much loyalty to pressgang.

Martens, as you may notice, are now the most used race because the gold-mine is overpowering every other race. but everyone LIKES gold-mine... i personally would hate to see it get crippled like pressgang was. but as you can see, those who don't choose mnarten as their race are at a disadvantage, especailly withe the current playing style on turbo where you horde for the immortalization (i've already long ago proposed that retto change it so that it counts how long people are in their rankings... so at the end, whoever spends the most time in first gets first, and so on.) but its clear martens are overpowering.

and look at the other races... stoat, which i hear has been changed to a stoat pressgang... which is crippling to the stoat race, same with rats and i guess weasels? those race are crippled worse then wildcat... their worse off then they were before, and before the changes... they SUCKED.

So, how do i propose we fix things? well, changing rat weasel and stoats back to their original specials for one would help. then making their special skills more effective. maybe make it so that for stoats, they are able to hold more then 175 leaders in their huts, or they have an attacking bonus for leader missions. for rat, raise the chances it gets on the lottery... then actually make the lottery profitable. for weasels... well what the heck to weasels do anyways?
my point is, all the races have to be amplified so that they can compete with martens. if you were to give stoat the leader attacking bonus, then people coulg be stoats and spend their time stealing from martens... thus weakinging martens without actually weaking gold-mine... if you exaggerate the specials of the crappier races, it will even out the game, and balence will find itself eventually.

retto please respond  :)  

[Menatus]

 Ooh, that's good. Especially since I had no idea how they suck-ifed Wildcats before I signed up.

P.S. Balanced (don't mean to pull a Shael or Cal on you...XD)

[Aqualis]

my point is, all the races have to be amplified

I hadn't though of that before.

We've been trying to weaken the strong races and bring them down to the level of weak ones. Instead, we should have been bringing the weak ones up to the strongs ones.

By exaggerating the bad races abilities, the game become more interesting and fairer.

Rat
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Make Luck of the Devil so that you can buy up to 10 tickets, and give it a raised chance of actually winning. But make the increase chance of winning have a diminishing return and put a cap at +25% or +30% so as not to make it to hard for the other race that play the lottery.

Of course to make this worth while, you'll need to make the lottery worth winning. A $400 bil+ lottery seems like a good idea to balance out the leader-loot and gold mines.

Weasel
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Corsair was used by some as a sort of poor-mans pressgang. Make it give you more skiffs so that the net given you is equal to what pressgang used to give.

Stoat
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I like Peace's idea for this. Make it so that stoats can have more than 175 leaders per hut. Raise it to around 225 leaders per hut. And give it a bonus in leaders mission. 10% bonus for everything over what a normal race would get. 5% would probly be better now that I think about it.

Fox
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Well, this is kinda useless. How do we fix it?

Currently, it just distorts the results of enemy espionage. This can stay as it is, but foxes need some other sort of bonus. Since, in the books, foxes are sneaky and crafty, how about they always succeed in their espionages. Regardless of leader ratios. And how about raise defenses is double what it is for other races.

Lizard
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If I'm not mistaken, this race's special ability is a scouting bonus. By the time you have enough leaders to make this work, it's already useless, because it is literally 310% of what you normally get. So if you would scout and get 1 land, you would get three.

I say that lizards should get twice as much land as othe species when scouting, and the special ability should be more like those found on other severs. You get a thousand or so land, but the more you use it the more you get, up to a certain amount, and then it drops back to the starting point.

Marten
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Goldmine should stay the same, no changes here.

Wildcat
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Restore pressgang to what it used to be.

Crow
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It's purpose is to be difficult to use. Leave it the same.

Painted One
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I think these are the ones with the ability to Burrow. That shoud stay. In the books they attacked in mobs and were generally well hidden. So they should get more of an attack bonus and they should loose less troops and other species. Say half as much.

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I can't remember any of the other species. And I probly went a little over board with some of my idea. Feel free to point out flaws or problems with anything I said.

[Juska]

 

Stoat
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I like Peace's idea for this. Make it so that stoats can have more than 175 leaders per hut. Raise it to around 225 leaders per hut. And give it a bonus in leaders mission. 10% bonus for everything over what a normal race would get. 5% would probly be better now that I think about it.

lmfao!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your trying to balance the game not make a super race!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you gvie that to Stoat everyone who is has even half a (sorry, but I can't think of a word to use) mind will flock to it, no toher race will safe from it's leaders. You'll see 90% of the leader players go Stoat and desert everything else.


I can't think atm. I'll give my views on waht they race bonuses and spells shoudl eb later.

[Veranor]

Wildcat
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Restore pressgang to what it used to be.

No, because pressgang was the most broken spell in the game ever

• Returns with 1 hut were as good with as 1000000 full huts, so people could basically play indy/whatever with a huge side gain from 1 hut of leaders
  
• You got more every time you did it because it was based off net which increased from the troop gains
  
• If you dropped all your huts it was really cheap rune wise
  [/list:u]
  

[Aqualis]

 Like I said, not all my ideas would be good.

Stoat
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Huts hold up to 190 leaders, but the stop filling at 100, like the do now, and you have to use academy to fill them the rest of the way. 5% bonus on offensive leader missions only.

Wildcat
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Restore Pressgang with these modifications:

Based on huts, more huts more troops. Have some sort of networth modifier. Something like(pressgang ratio+(pressgang ratio*(networth/100,000,000))). For just a little added bonus. Not like it is now.

Not perfect, but better.

[RazorClaw]

 Like I said, keep Wildcat and pressgang the same, make all the others better.  

[cloud]

 fox = skiff pressgang... just a little fyi.  Dont know what weasel is.

Oh, and it's still broken:

"Missions: Success
0 Skiffs have been added to your army"

[sh0e]

 theoretically it works
but the requirements make it difficult to turn up anything

and the returns are horrible
even assuming that you optimize between huts and cities with max workers
just doing indy returns as much if not more than pressgang
and thats not counting turns making loyalty

[Peace Alliance]

 no, keep wildcat pressgang like it is now... the former spell was FAR too powerfull.

stoats could have a normal 175 max leader capacity, but they have a 20% attacking bonus for leaders... which would be QUITE strong. it would meen a stoat could potentionally use the acadamy to get 175 leaders and then with their 20% bonus, stealing would be much easier... this wouldn't make stoats the uber-race either, like juska suspects, because if everyone were to go to stoat, then there wouldn't be any martens to steal from ;)

foxes could potentially have some sort of networth clouding ability? make you look smaller then you actually are,that'd be cool.

[Gen. Volkov]

 Never used wildcat. But Marten shouldn't be crippled. I dunno who exactly I agree with... But I'd say return the stoat and other races pressgangs to their former abilities, or make the requirments a little easier to get.

[fingo]

Never used wildcat. But Marten shouldn't be crippled. I dunno who exactly I agree with... But I'd say return the stoat and other races pressgangs to their former abilities, or make the requirments a little easier to get.

Ditto

If you want to do anything make it so you get less money or troops

[Juska]

 Marten - Drop the +20% troop production and reduce the costs and mercinaries to only -10%, and then put their off and def to 0%

Rat - make the lottery worth something, make the jackpot $1 billion, give rat a +25% bonus at winning the lottery and let Luck of the Devil buy 5 tickets and make the lottery have a 90% chance of picking someone tickets. Ex: 10 tickets were bought, the game itself add one more ticket, if the game picks it's ticket no one wins. If 100 tickets were bought the game adds 10 tickets and so on.

Or, drop the Rat's special ability all together and give him +10% foraging -10% food(how much the troops eat) and +%5 off. Along with their current bonuses, and penalize their leaders and loyalty even more if you want bonuses to equal negatives.


Wildcat - Give the Wildcat back it's former +%'s and -%'s leave give them back pressgang, but put a cap on the size bonus, and once they reacha certain point start a negative bonus like with regular leader spells. Ex: Once they hit 50mil net the size bonus no longer affects them, once they hit 100mil the pressgang return is cut in half and cut it in half for the each of the next 50mil increments.

Wolf - Give Wolf Academy, remove the +20% food negative and remove their scouting and costs bonuses.

Fox - Give the Fox +30% foraging -10% food +5% training and -5% cots -10% mercinares for bonuses and give them -10% loyalty, -10% leadership, -15% scouting, -20% income -5% def. Leave them with Falsify documents, but make the leader/hut ratio need only 50.

Lizard - Give the lizard +50% scouting, +10% build, +10% training, +5% income, +15% foraging for bonuses and -25% off. -25% def -10% loyalty -10% leadership +25% merc. for negatives and give them Search, make the ratio needed only 75 and make it mulitply scouting returns by 5x (50-250) and some kind of networth bonus so that they continually gain more land while growing in net.

Remove the Ermine

I'll try and comment on Weasel, Filtcheye, Stoat, Ferret, and painted One in the future.

[sh0e]

Marten - Drop the +20% troop production and reduce the costs and mercinaries to only -10%, and then put their off and def to 0%

Rat - make the lottery worth something, make the jackpot $1 billion, give rat a +25% bonus at winning the lottery and let Luck of the Devil buy 5 tickets and make the lottery have a 90% chance of picking someone tickets. Ex: 10 tickets were bought, the game itself add one more ticket, if the game picks it's ticket no one wins. If 100 tickets were bought the game adds 10 tickets and so on.

Or, drop the Rat's special ability all together and give him +10% foraging -10% food(how much the troops eat) and +%5 off. Along with their current bonuses, and penalize their leaders and loyalty even more if you want bonuses to equal negatives.


Wildcat - Give the Wildcat back it's former +%'s and -%'s leave give them back pressgang, but put a cap on the size bonus, and once they reacha certain point start a negative bonus like with regular leader spells. Ex: Once they hit 50mil net the size bonus no longer affects them, once they hit 100mil the pressgang return is cut in half and cut it in half for the each of the next 50mil increments.

Wolf - Give Wolf Academy, remove the +20% food negative and remove their scouting and costs bonuses.

Fox - Give the Fox +30% foraging -10% food +5% training and -5% cots -10% mercinares for bonuses and give them -10% loyalty, -10% leadership, -15% scouting, -20% income -5% def. Leave them with Falsify documents, but make the leader/hut ratio need only 50.

Lizard - Give the lizard +50% scouting, +10% build, +10% training, +5% income, +15% foraging for bonuses and -25% off. -25% def -10% loyalty -10% leadership +25% merc. for negatives and give them Search, make the ratio needed only 75 and make it mulitply scouting returns by 5x (50-250) and some kind of networth bonus so that they continually gain more land while growing in net.

Remove the Ermine

I'll try and comment on Weasel, Filtcheye, Stoat, Ferret, and painted One in the future.

wow.. juska basically covered everything that i would agree with

except for one little thing.. wildcat didnt use a "size bonus"
it was multiplied directly with your nw

but that kind of goes along with what i think should be done..
that the nw should instead be used to calculate a size bonus.. which could be capped

the problem was that the old equation was recursive
which made it a power function.. whih macde it increase too fast
if you made it use a size bonus instead and capped it
you could make it more linear and thus more constant and controllable

[fingo]

 I don't see why it was changed so much. Couldn't the Marten just get less money from gold mine and the same idea with other things that people didn't think were fair?