Hacked, again.

[wolf bite]

 Not to even get into that you skipped over all the points I made that you can not defend his actions on and moved over to almost changing the topic.

But lets address the 3 weak points you did make.

You say that there are ways that some companies could have some of people?s information. So what? Beatles has several parts of many peoples information that was not given to him. This could enable him to do fraud. Not to mention having access in the first place is illegal! Beatles is a person, not a legitimate company. And a person that has hacked this server, cheated in his own game, and done numerous other deeds that are highly questionable. I have no trust for Beatles, as I feel most do not.

You say that if you make a typo that it is not voluntary. Wrong! Your fingers typed into the site. But even still, you did not give them your other information.

You say that you don?t think he copied the information. How do you know? Just the fact that he got to it is wrong and against the law. He has in the past used the passwords that people used on his server to access their accounts on this server. This is not a loyal and trusted person. He has a history of corruption.

And yet one more point. If you want to make unfounded assumptions, so can I. How do we know that Beatles did not find this bug months ago and gave it to Josh. Josh has been using this bug for months to wreck the last 5 turbos with his last minute take over of the game. Josh is not a programmer, he could not have found it with out help. Not that we will ever know if this is true, but you statement about whether a greater harm could have been done is false. There was and is a great harm. If people were not reading the code line by line to try to destroy this server, then there would not be a problem. Maybe people should hack Beatles server, change everything, then tell Beatles he is lucky that someone else could have done more harm. Same logic.

Sadly, I was convinced to chat with Beatles today because I was told he had reasonable reasons for his actions. All Beatles did was swear at me and tell me all the hate he has. I for one, and I think there are many more, do not want this person to have MY information. And I think there is no excuse to even partially justify his actions.


Wolf Bite

[Veranor]

 

Not to even get into that you skipped over all the points I made that you can not defend his actions on and moved over to almost changing the topic.

But lets address the 3 weak points you did make.

You say that there are ways that some companies could have some of people?s information. So what? Beatles has several parts of many peoples information that was not given to him. This could enable him to do fraud. Not to mention having access in the first place is illegal! Beatles is a person, not a legitimate company. And a person that has hacked this server, cheated in his own game, and done numerous other deeds that are highly questionable. I have no trust for Beatles, as I feel most do not.

You say that if you make a typo that it is not voluntary. Wrong! Your fingers typed into the site. But even still, you did not give them your other information.

You say that you don?t think he copied the information. How do you know? Just the fact that he got to it is wrong and against the law. He has in the past used the passwords that people used on his server to access their accounts on this server. This is not a loyal and trusted person. He has a history of corruption.

And yet one more point. If you want to make unfounded assumptions, so can I. How do we know that Beatles did not find this bug months ago and gave it to Josh. Josh has been using this bug for months to wreck the last 5 turbos with his last minute take over of the game. Josh is not a programmer, he could not have found it with out help. Not that we will ever know if this is true, but you statement about whether a greater harm could have been done is false. There was and is a great harm. If people were not reading the code line by line to try to destroy this server, then there would not be a problem. Maybe people should hack Beatles server, change everything, then tell Beatles he is lucky that someone else could have done more harm. Same logic.

Sadly, I was convinced to chat with Beatles today because I was told he had reasonable reasons for his actions. All Beatles did was swear at me and tell me all the hate he has. I for one, and I think there are many more, do not want this person to have MY information. And I think there is no excuse to even partially justify his actions.


Wolf Bite

1) I never signed up to give you my information, and yet you still have access to it. (This is not a very good point, but still)

2) IP Address is a bunch of (junk), every site I go to logs my ip address and does what ever they want with it. Heck, there is a simple way to log ips of all visitors of these forums: post an image in your sig. The requests in your server logs will tell you their IP, what time they visited it etc.

3) We don't know he didn't copy the information, but you also don't know that he did. Being a lawyer, maybe you should know that that's shifting who has to prove what. Yes I realize here the admins can do "guilty until proven innocent" but your argument that he copied it and it was "against the law" does not work that way.

4) Same logic applied to your "maybe he gave Josh the exploit."

(20:12:16) Josh: betales is online right now?
(20:12:33) Josh: tell [him] to unblock me please lol

Frankly, you're blowing the Admin thing to huge lame proportions. He probably made himself an admin as a joke and to delete you. Please stop doing everything in your power to make him look more evil than he really is. It was just a simple prank to illustrate what could happen. Yes it was wrong etc. etc. but please, he's not that evil.


PS. Someone go download the source code and look at watchlist.txt. Good to know Retto is publishing the info of those he deems are bad people because they associate with cheaters.  I'm sure those people gave him permission to publish all that stuff. Yet no one here is up in arms about that.

[Wolf Snare]

 there is no exploit. Josh didn't use an exploit.. I know how he did it... skill.

oh btw beatles has access to the brainchild and could at any moment capture it.. he can also get onto rettos computer,

[bjornredtail]

 There was an exploit. That is what this whole thing demonstrated. It is possable to give mySQL commands directly to the server through this exploit. It is very similar to what  that one odd person hacked RWL, putting Josh's name all over the place. Without a hole this big, neither incident would have occured. It would be impossable without such an explit. Rather Josh himself used this, or any other exploit, is debateable and not all that related to this topic.

[Neobaron]

 Ive got a lov-u-lee bunch of coconuts...

---

Anyways...

I have respect for those that keep everyhitng running, but Retto isnt the most active person around... ya know?

At least Beatles got our attention instead of giving an e-mail to someone that may or may not have done anything =-/

---

Why does every argument have to be turned into a morality debate in these forums?

Last time i checked, Beatles's only offense (even though i think it was a good thing to do) was to point out the flaws of our game in rather unorthodox ways...    

Hes not going to steal our identitys or check our e-mail for us...   jeez...

*shrug*

---

I know im still a newbie and have no right to speak to some of you (pfft... i hope you recognize my sarcasm) but what the heck eh?

Simple point...        

[RazorClaw]

 You're worthy, Neo, since you wear clean underwear. *shudders* Honestly, I wonder how Kilk found that out...  

[Neobaron]

 I was actually wondering that myself O.o

[How much?]

 Wolf Bite is being so ridiculous, I won't even give him the dignity of responding to what he says. It is simpler if everyone sees that he is a raving lunacy right now. My personal reasons for disliking him are based on his manipulativeness, the fact that he is slandering me, and that I have enough witness evidence that I would win in a hypothetical court scenario. I am not only innocent until proven guilty, but I am also an honest player, and I have witnesses to back me up.
I refuse to address the accusations of slander heaped against me, it is better to ignore them. But I will say this: I have never, ever transgressed the rules of the game or forums for the betterment of anyone's RWL accounts or personal gain. Once at the beginning of the second era, I had multiple accounts by accident, but even then I kept them separate and slowly deleted one within two weeks.
Even though a lot of you don't know me, I remember many of you that do. I hope the majority of you will listen to me, because it would be bitter to think that you would listen to the ravings and slander like sheep in a paddock. I know many of you well; I ask you to say something in defense of me too. Don't just watch silently, because you're just supporting those who shout. Do you still have a sense of justice? Justice is what which I have been campaigning for from so early onwards, and have been hated for it. Don't you feel the injustice? Here, now, for long times past?
Doesn't it make you want to say something!

[wolf bite]

 And that statement of integrity from someone that recently hacked our game and is now using a proxy to get around his ban?

Does anyone remember when Beatles used the passwords from his game to access the accounts on RWL? That would be a from of identity theft.


Wolf Bite

[Juska]

 Beatles is going around his ban only because or what your saying about him, if you would just clam up about this subject he'd go away peacefully until the next time RWL has a huge problem which needs to be fixed and then hopefully if you he still feels like helping us, after all this (junk) you've people said about him, he will tell retto how to fix it.  

[Wolf Snare]

 phhhhht.... wolf, you didn't directly respond to anything Josh just said.. It's like he didn't even post/.. that's how ignorant you are. :huh:

Where's your proof that he hacked?

gahh..  

[Peace Alliance]

 i'm sure by hacked, wolf was referring to the bug beatles was exploiting, which he admitted to...

Btw, i haven't been choosing to be silent on this matter because i support wolf, nor because i'm afraid to do the opposite. Personally, i know beatles is a good person. Unlike the picture wolf is portraying he's not an immature kid trying to hack up RWL so he can show all the newb kids who really pwns WHO's base.

Sure, i reolise he helped us by exposing the bug... its not really the way i would have done it, but that doesn't make him a bad person.

Wolf, you tend to often try to depict those you oppose as criminals... as is your job (irl). however, in this case i think your wrong. furthermore, i think you could avoid a whole lot of arguing and complaints by simply playing the aloof admin for a bit on this matter.

those are my words *nod*

[bjornredtail]

 

Does anyone remember when Beatles used the passwords from his game to access the accounts on RWL? That would be a from of identity theft.

That technically impossable, or at the very least very hard. All the passwords are run through an MD5sum hash, the same way they are here at RWL. Once they are hashed, they cannot simply be decrypted.

And that statement of integrity from someone that recently hacked our game and is now using a proxy to get around his ban?

Hacked the game to point out flaws in security, in an attempt to make the game more secure and prevent even more harm, such as what might come if someone who really wanted to destroy the game would do with this exploit.

[sh0e]

 well.. it might be possible to get the passwords when they are sent undecrypted
but there is no evidence of any code nor actions of the like along that line

and even if he had done something like that
its not even nearly close to as bad as "watchlist.txt" in the baax bundle pointed out by veranor
(a file publically publishing sensitive and personal information of multiple people)
for no other visible purposes than a crude intimidation tactic

it probably goes without saying that i sympathize with beatles

[Holby]

 I don't.

Disagreeing with Wolf on one account here. He is wrong in that Beatles took passwords from his game to use on RWL. He took forum account passwords from TSOR/Duels and checked to see if they matched game accounts- they did.