Hacked, again.

[DemonSlavers]

Please stop spamming. There. It's a request. I suggest you obey it. Blackeyes was rather like you, and nobody liked him and he's now banned for activities not too far from yours.

Alright Fine sorry the way i acted.

[Peace Alliance]

 i like blackeyes...


DemonSlavers, if you wanna know who hacked, chances are if you look in the first couple of posts, that question would have been covered... seeing as how the topic of the thread is "Hacked, again".  

[How much?]

 The Lies of Wolf Bite, Collected (from this thread only, all of them would be much too much):
"Used 80 turns. Sold everything, sent aid"
" Beatles has a God complex."
"I don?t think I have whined, only pointed something out."
"one person?s actions can disturb many people"
"we would have tried everything brought to our attention without that person proving his point"
"I am not upset about the account being deleted."
"Beatles took it on his own to ... exploit the bug."
"His reasons were not to help RWL, but to degrade us."
"Beatles? action of deleting the only playing Admin in the game was a direct attack against those in this server."
"He now has everyone?s IP address."
"He now has everyone?s Email Address."
"He now has everyone?s true name."
"He now has everyone?s log in name."
"People sign into a site trusting that their information will be kept private, as WRL always has."
"if one person feels it is wrong, then it is wrong."
"50 people that he has violated."
"I have no reason to believe that Beatles did not copy the information."
"you skipped over all the points I made"
"Beatles has several parts of many peoples information that was not given to him. This could enable him to do fraud."
"cheated in his own game"
"done numerous other deeds that are highly questionable."
"I feel most do not [have trust for Beatles]."
"Just the fact that he got to it ... against the law."
"He has in the past used the passwords that people used on his server to access their accounts on this server."
"He has a history of corruption."
"All Beatles did was swear at me and tell me all the hate he has."
"And I think there is no excuse to even partially justify his actions."
"How do we know that Beatles did not find this bug months ago and gave it to Josh."
"Beatles used the passwords from his game to access the accounts on RWL"
"all he did was tell me the reasons he hates me
"he deleted me intentionally, along with it seems 19 other people, unlike what he had posted."
"instead proxyed an account and evaded the issue"
"made attacks on me that conflict with his earlier statements"
"* Installs bigger firewall because he has had access to everyone?s IP addresses. *"
"My intent is not to degrade the person, as some posts seem to think, but to bring to light the above statement."
"The intent is to harm."
"your intent was to get me back for 2 things way in the past that I had nothing to do with either of them."
"I also feel that you wanted not to be helpful to RWL, but to point out flaws excessively to make Retto look bad."
"delete me out of what he has confessed as vengeance"
"And attempts were made to deal with it on IMs"


Finally, here's a quote from me:

From The Poceedings Of The Committee To Evaluate Wolf Bite's Sad Eyes:
"... It is easy to look with sad eyes on your wrongdoer, if you know well that your friends, admiring you the more for your stance, will belabor him doubly for you."

Notes:
-I have included direct lies, insinuations, but otherwise no slander.
-Paperback copy $1.25, hardback $2.30
-The total lie count is: 41

[Peace Alliance]

 although some of those are arguable... i'll take a hard cover... but only because i think socially i would be unaccepted without it on my shelf...

[wolf bite]

 Come off it. Instead of addressing any of his actions or any points, he makes attacks against the person bring his deeds out in the open.

Just because Beatles refuses to address the issue does not make any or all the facts lies.

Frankly, since there is no opposition, I see absolutely no reason to spend my time going over each one (again) and restating it.


Wolf Bite

[bjornredtail]

 Wolf Bite: Come off it. I am opposition, and you have failed to adress a number of my own points. Such as the fact you are doing more than reporting known facts. You do not know that Beatles copied down the DB contents. You do not know what Beatles intent was. You do not know the validity of the charge that Beatles cheated on his own server, or that he used passwords off of FaF to access people's RWL accounts. You are just speculateing on all of these points. Even if they are true,  you have no crediable evidance to back any of them.

Same goes for the watchlist.txt point.


Beatles: Around half of those are simply Wolf's opinion. How can that be lieing if no facts are involved?

[wolf bite]

 My question is why I am being requested to verify my facts when Beatles has not even addressed the issue?

Further, all these sub issues have noting to do with the topic.

But to show that at least I am not avoiding, I will address your direct questions:

Such as the fact you are doing more than reporting known facts

It may seem that way. I find myself under attack for reporting facts, then I am requested to give my reasons for those facts. In doing so I have not much of a choice then to state my information leading me to the conclusions I have stated.

You do not know that Beatles copied down the DB contents.

No I do not. However he as an illegitimate Admin on the server had access to them. If someone takes top-secret documents, or is in the dressing room of the other sex, we don?t have to know they looked to know it was wrong. Beatles was where he knew he was not allowed and may have seen that information. There is no way for him to prove he did not copy what he wrongfully saw.

You do not know what Beatles intent was.

Sure do! Beatles told me in an IM that he was getting back at me for some issues long since past. Also his attitude in his own conversation with Retto highly indicates rudeness, not helpfulness.

You do not know the validity of the charge that Beatles cheated on his own server

Sure do! When I played, a friend sent to me a copy of my stats that was sent to him from Beatles playing account. I had never been successfully spied, only an admin could have copied it. So he does have a history of copying information and wrongfully using it. Also I was once the only one on line, besides Beatles Admin account, OFF LINE players started attacking me! The only way that could have happened was if Beatles went on their accounts under his admin powers.

or that he used passwords off of FaF to access people's RWL accounts.

It had been reported to me from several people that they had verifiable knowledge that Beatles did this deed. Can I prove it, no. Do I believe those that told me, yes.


I have responded to more then I should have to when Beatles has not responded with anything but blindly attacks me for posing questions.  Why not demand that he actually address the issues?


Wolf Bite

[bjornredtail]

 In everyone's mind, the burden of proof lies on the accuser. That seems fair to me. Suppose I was to accuse you of abuseing your admin powers, redistrabuating MySQL dumps via IRC, spying on messages to provide intel to a clan, deleting stuff wrongfully, etc. By your logic, you would have to prove that you didn't do any of that. Prominance, not even Retto's version keeps a log of admin actions. You couldn't prove that.


You know the condition of the FaF codebase. No offence to the delevopers behind it, but it is a complete mess. Perhaps the news system wasn't working. Perhaps the thing that keeps track of the sessions wasn't working. Perhaps Beatles did "cheat" in order to test the codebase. Rember that FaF has never really left beta testing.

Also his attitude in his own conversation with Retto highly indicates rudeness, not helpfulness.

And Retto's attitude toward Beatles is any different?
"John/Beatles. He's aspiring to be Josh/Fenix, and I'm going to catch him on a rule, and ban him, and scream as he might, I think everyone will understand that he is the most annoying person they have talked to in a long while, and will be happy that he has finally just shut up."-Retto's list of people he doesn't like

[Gen. Volkov]

 Oh and BTW Demonslavers, apology accepted, just try and listen in the future ok?

Oh and to nevada and wolf bite... does it even matter anymore? Its what like 2 weeks since this happened... are we ever gonna just drop this and move on? Reg has been reset, and Turbo wil be too soon.. so how is this in any way applicable to now? Its just on the brink of turning into a flame war. You guys are basically insulting each other, just without the "your mama" and such, and I dunno about the rest of RWL, but I'm starting to get annoyed. So can we just stop this please and close the topic, as well as locking the thread?

[bjornredtail]

 If "we just stop this thing" it will never just stop. Look at how old the stuff Wolf and I are digging up... Look at how old the Beatles banning here is. Same for the advertiseing ban. Just stopping this would not resolve the problems behind it. It wouldn't be fair to accuse someone of doing something, without allowing them and their supporters an adaquate chance to defend themselves.

[Gen. Volkov]

 But you have had adequate chance... MORE than adequate. This thread is many pages long. And if you wanna dig all this old stuff up.. then you have more time and energy than I do... Also you claim you want to resolve this, but will it ever really be resolved? I doubt it. Wolf Bite, Beatles and all their various supporters, each side claiming to be better than the other, yet they are both just as bad as each other. I'm not claiming to be a saint here, but when I've had argument like this, I usually end up just dropping the subject when its this obvious that its pointless to continue. So why doesn't one side PROVE that it better and more noble than the other by being the first to drop the subject? I think that woul dbe the ultimate proof of moral superiority.

[bjornredtail]

 Closeing of the topic would constuate an act of agression aginst Beatles by the RWL staff. That would just extend this admittedly preexisting fude more than allowing the topic to run it's course.  

[wolf bite]

 True, thus I have not closed it nor banned the banned Beatles from posting.

However after 8 pages of posts, where I have been attacked, Beatles has yet explained why he did what he did.


Wolf Bite

[Lereac]

 *coughs*

Why don't you read some of his posts in the eyes of an impartial judge?

Also, as an admin, I sympathize with you.  I think your anger is fully justified -- however, you are doing the wrong thing.

To me, you're coming across as highly immature.  You're calling Beatles a liar when you're lieing about him being a liar.  Also, why can't you just back down and admit, "OK, I did something which was stupid.  I'm sorry."

No.  You have to keep on trying to make Beatles look bad, all the time degrading yourself in the eyes of other people.  Who in this thread in the last few pages has really supported you?

Also, as for the real names... hah!  How many people do you think really use their real names?  I mean, c'mon!  Also, what would Beatles gain out of copying everybody's IP and e-mail?  I mean, so what!  He's got your IP and your e-mail address, that is, if he did even look at them or copy them down.

You CAN NOT go around saying, "Well, he might have done something, so that means he is a bad person".  You're the admin here, but if you take a "Guilty until proven innocent" stance, well, then I, for one, am going to look down on you.

You ignore people's points which you can't answer.  You ignore the flaws in your own logic.  You just keep restating the same bleedin' points without any proof or backing.

Your argument doesn't stand.  You're talking from the floor.

[Nohcnonk]

 Well, I don't like Beatles so I support Wolf. ^_^

I think Wolf's only trying to change the ideas of people so that this place doesn't go to the dogs.  At least 2/3 of the people remaining here either support Josh and his crew or Beatles, two people that have troubled our game.  I could say two people that have worsened our game because Beatles hasn't seemed to have helped much yet.

Yes, we could drop it, but then more people would do things and go uncontested by the admin.