Presidential Debate #1 of 2004

[Dead Eye]

 Greetings! This is the debate. The rules were as followed.

-Each person would be thrown a question, then other canidate given it, then a rebuttle from both. Actual answers were 3 minutes, rebuttles were 2. No speaking in other person's turn. You must not flame each other.

Both canidates wished for it to be copied and pasted, word for word. So it will be harder to read, I appologize. These were exact words, though some of my own words are cut out.

For those who do not know:
Dead Eye is Reporter Dead Eye
Peace is OSOBO President Canidate Peace Alliance
Kilk is Odd Party Canidate Kilk.

Hold onto your hats, cuz here we go!

Dead Eye (8:30:40 PM): 1st question, directed to Peace Alliance
Dead Eye (8:31:05 PM): What is your position on spam? How do you plan to deal with it? Are our rules on it to loose or too strict?
Peace (8:32:14 PM): most spammers are looking for attention. the best way to stop spam is to be good examples. instead of flaming the spammers or arguing with them... deal with them in more of a respectfull manner
Peace (8:32:29 PM): make sure they know the spa room is for spamming, and that everywhere else it will just be scroll space
Dead Eye (8:33:01 PM): Thank you
Peace (8:33:09 PM): thank you
Dead Eye (8:33:23 PM): Kilk, same question
Kilk (8:43:24 PM): There is a time and place for spam.
Kilk (8:43:39 PM): Fortunately, that time is any time a person who feels the need to spam wants!
Kilk (8:43:55 PM): But UNfortunately, it should be allowed only in the Spa room. We have it for a reason.
Kilk (8:44:37 PM): The rules against spam are not strict enough, there are many posts still that are classified as spam that come up in the GD, and in Polling for the most part, that could easily be put into the Spa Room
Kilk (8:45:02 PM): Basically, what I want to do is to enforce the rules that Ad has set out about spam more effectively.
Kilk (8:45:41 PM): People would receive a warning after they spam, and after that, a gagging from all but the spa room for one day. After that a week, and on until we see fit. There may be up to three warnings given...There is no excuse to spam outside of the spa room.
Dead Eye (8:46:07 PM): Thank you
Dead Eye (8:46:18 PM): Your rebuttle Mr. Peace Alliance
Peace (8:46:22 PM): :-)
Peace (8:47:51 PM): alright, well, kilk method of dealing with spam is somewhat of a blunt one. direct punishment, strict outlines of the rule. Will this not create more trouble? i'm not saying rules shouldn't be enforced, and is someone is bent
Peace (8:47:58 PM): on spamming regardless of what their told
Peace (8:48:02 PM): and regardless of warnings
Peace (8:48:12 PM): then yes, gag them
Peace (8:48:43 PM): however, its not a solution from keeping new people from spamming, it will only keep old people from spamming more
Peace (8:49:25 PM): so a solution where people set a good example, by refrainging from spam, and/or by politely telling spammers not to do so
Peace (8:50:20 PM): discussions on the forums should be like discussions in real life. if someone sits there screaming cheese the entire time they're going to be asked to leave. but they start screaming cheese and somebody asks them to stop, its
Peace (8:50:26 PM): more of a reasonable aproch
Peace (8:50:29 PM): (finish)
Kilk (8:50:46 PM): As I have before stated, the offender will receive a warning.
Dead Eye (8:51:01 PM): gah too long by like 40 seconds
Peace (8:51:12 PM): (sorry)
Peace (8:51:17 PM): (won't happen again)
Kilk (8:51:28 PM): After a warning, the accused SHOULD be aware of what they are doing, if not, a day's not being able to post would give that person a constant reminder to keep it in the spa room.
Kilk (8:52:11 PM): Having rules set in stone gives people no excuse for not following them, therefore the forums are cleaner, and those who do follow those rules will be happier...I believe that the definition of spam can be amended if possible, as ne
Kilk (8:52:28 PM): w things arise, but only if the members approve, and it is proposed in an acceptable format.
Dead Eye (8:52:58 PM): Thank you

Dead Eye (8:53:00 PM): Next question Directed at Kilk
Dead Eye (8:53:12 PM): What is your position on Banned members?
Kilk (8:53:26 PM): Banned members have obviously been banned for a reason.
Kilk (8:54:28 PM): Unfortunately these people continue to come to the forums on different accounts, and there is very little stopping it. I wish to further ban IP addresses of known banned members, and update the ban list with the proxy list (one
Kilk (8:54:36 PM): can obtain the proxy list by downloading the game's source...)
Kilk (8:55:17 PM): It should make the forums considerably cleaner, so those people that the admins have deemed "unsavory" will have less chance to bother those of us who follow the rules.
Kilk (8:56:04 PM): This is just about everything we can do at the current time, is ban them, and try to deter them from coming back.
Dead Eye (8:56:32 PM): Thank you
Dead Eye (8:56:38 PM): Peace Alliance, same question
Peace (8:57:52 PM): lets face it, the banned member who keeps coming back... and who disobays the admins wish's is josh. how do we stop josh from coming back to the forums? well, theres really not much we can do.
Peace (8:58:04 PM): he gets disabled as soon as the admins find out who he is... but he can get new IP's
Peace (8:58:11 PM): theres no real way to stop him
Peace (8:58:20 PM): but there are ways to aviod influencing him
Peace (8:59:34 PM): on the issue of banned members there is really very little i can offer you that kilk can't as president... i won't give you false hope though, because there is no way to stop josh from coming on the forums. furthermore, not
Peace (8:59:53 PM): not everyone wants him gone, so its not like he's been chased out of the neibhorhood
Peace (9:00:27 PM): the administration is in charge of security, they are civil
Dead Eye (9:01:09 PM): Your rebuttle
Kilk (9:00:49 PM): I did not have the pretense of giving anyone false hope.
Kilk (9:01:17 PM): False hope would be telling everyone that I could wave an arm and he would be gone entirely.
Kilk (9:01:52 PM): Unfortunately, that is just not so. I have stated that I will take all possible measures to be sure that those banned cannot come back (there are more than just Josh, by the way) in an easy fashion. The easier we make it for them to
Kilk (9:02:21 PM): come back, the more often they will do so, and hte more often we will have to deal with their flaming, ignorance, and general lack of respect for our rules.
Dead Eye (9:02:42 PM): Thank you, and your rebuttle Peace Alliance?
Peace (9:03:45 PM): it is false hope to say that as president you will ensure that there are more IP bans to keep people like josh out. because IP bans won't even be able to block him out because of proxys. the administration, as a civil organisation,
Peace (9:03:53 PM): does its best to keep banned members at bay
Peace (9:04:37 PM): you seem to say that you will tighten up spamming rules, tighten up bannings... but its out of your hands, and wouldn't that mean your giving false hope?
Peace (9:04:48 PM): yes, there are other banned members, i didn't say josh was the only one
Dead Eye (9:05:58 PM): Thank you, some what over time limit

Dead Eye (9:06:18 PM): Next question
Dead Eye (9:06:22 PM): Directed to Peace
Dead Eye (9:06:23 PM): What do you plan to do about the decreasing numbers of RWLers? Do you plan to do Advertising for RWL? Will you try to bring old members back, or bring new members in, or both, and how do you plan to do this?
Peace (9:07:01 PM): actually, according to the administration, last i heard numbers were increasing...
Dead Eye (9:09:38 PM): (Hold time for inconvience)
Dead Eye (9:10:32 PM): He used 35 seconds, for record
Dead Eye (9:10:54 PM): The time has been stopped from when we believe Mr. Peace Alliance had problems
Peace (9:10:58 PM): ok
Dead Eye (9:11:04 PM): You have used roughly 30 seconds
Dead Eye (9:11:08 PM): You have 2:30 left
Dead Eye (9:11:10 PM): Ready?
Peace (9:11:13 PM): yes
Peace (9:11:41 PM): luckily, taking advantage of my position as the organiser of commanders, i have already made an effort to bring people to RWL
Peace (9:12:00 PM): getting people to come to RWL to play the next exciting commanders will hopefully encourage them to stay for good
Peace (9:12:12 PM): what will i do as president to bring in new members?
Peace (9:12:21 PM): i ahve lots of ideas. other then just commanders
Peace (9:12:41 PM): i think that making the community we have now a very welcoming knit community will invite more people to come and STAY
Peace (9:12:54 PM): supporting wolf bites program to tutor new comers, is a great idea, and i will be doing so myself
Peace (9:13:44 PM): i have already made a strong effort in bringing people to RWL, and will make an even stronger one as president... in fact i think i was the one who got kilk to come back, hehe, that true kilk?
Kilk (9:14:04 PM): In fact that is somewhat true, yes, that and Razorclaw.
Kilk (9:14:32 PM): From the peak time of RWL, when we had the most members, I speculate that we have lost 50% of our total membership, and therefore the activity level.
Kilk (9:14:51 PM): Though we are making minimal gains, as Peace has stated, they are just that - Minimal.
Kilk (9:15:00 PM): I propose that we reach out further to the rest of the ROC.
Kilk (9:15:32 PM): Most of Vulpine Imperium and other games that Retto has been active in are, or already have been members of RWL.
Kilk (9:15:56 PM): I think that there is a great deal more of the ROC that we have not yet tapped, and need to cater to them first, continuing to play exhibition games like Commanders.
Kilk (9:16:35 PM): I also propose doing club vs club games every 2 months, for ROC groups that have not yet found RWL, but wish to have a face-off in a controlled environment with one another.
Kilk (9:16:49 PM): Hopefully many of these people will see us as a great place, and will wish to stay.
Dead Eye (9:17:01 PM): Thank you
Dead Eye (9:17:26 PM): And your Rebutal Peace Alliance
Peace (9:17:28 PM): its true that RWL isn't as large as it once was in terms of membership. however thats why i'm saying that the welcoming community is so important. keeping the community strong and tightly knit is very important. in doing so,
Peace (9:17:52 PM): perhaps the community we once had wouldn't have depleted so much
Peace (9:18:38 PM): reaching out into the ROC community is important, but without a plan for keeping them here at RWL, they might leave as the others did. RWL addiction is strong, but building a community could make it stronger.
Dead Eye (9:19:04 PM): Thank you, Kilk your final Rebutle
Kilk (9:19:21 PM): The plan for keeping them here is the same as trying to keep any new member. We get them hooked on the game.
Kilk (9:19:40 PM): The community is great, but the game is the meat and potatoes of this group.
Kilk (9:20:18 PM): People come for the game, and stay for the community it seems. We need to strive to get more players in the game before we can try to keep more on the forums, because those things go hand in hand.
Kilk (9:21:10 PM): And having exhibition games, and getting the ROC to participate is a great way to draw people, and hopefully they will see a part of the ROC they have never seen before and will wish to stay.

Dead Eye (9:21:43 PM): Ok, next question
Dead Eye (9:21:45 PM): Directed to Kilk
Dead Eye (9:22:18 PM): Do you plan to recreate the AIM chats or in any way make RWLers more interactive outside of forums?
Kilk (9:22:31 PM): Unfortunately the AIM chats from before failed.
Kilk (9:23:07 PM): If members wish to interact with one another, they tend to do it on their own terms, and take one another's AIM names from beneath their forum signatures and talk to them then...There are many members that do not associate with one
Kilk (9:23:25 PM): another, or wish to associate with one another, and the AIM chats really brought that to surface.
Kilk (9:23:41 PM): There weren't fights, just some name calling, and they usually fell apart within minutes that everyone saw who was in attendance.
Kilk (9:24:08 PM): Interaction outside the forums for most RWLers is the game. That is why we are here, and that puts us together into one group.
Kilk (9:24:48 PM): Many play different Promisance games with one another, but the Game really is the best interactive thing that the Members can participate in, first even above the forums.
Dead Eye (9:25:05 PM): Thank you
Dead Eye (9:25:11 PM): Same question Peace Alliance
Peace (9:26:43 PM): the aim chats are fun. basicly thats all they are. the only reason i have AIM, is so that i can communicate with RWLers, and i have over 120 of them on my list... so aim is very important in communicating. but its not primary
Dead Eye (9:27:03 PM): Your rebuttle Kilk
Kilk (9:27:50 PM): Well, seeing as there is not much else to say, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Peace Alliance for attending this debate tonight, and Deadeye for hosting it.
Kilk (9:28:05 PM): Finished
Dead Eye (9:28:15 PM): Any rebuttle Peace?
Peace (9:28:44 PM): um.... nope.... except that.... BLAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH....
Peace (9:28:49 PM): finished
Dead Eye (9:28:53 PM): Um...I agree
Peace (9:28:59 PM): *nods*
Dead Eye (9:29:05 PM): Ok

Dead Eye (9:29:10 PM): Next question
Dead Eye (9:29:13 PM): Directed to Peace
Dead Eye (9:29:17 PM): This is a big one
Dead Eye (9:29:47 PM): Your position on flaming, and the rules and punishments of it, too harsh, too strict? Any changes?
Peace (9:30:19 PM): this being carefully i should probably choose my words carefully, but i'm a man who speaks his mind
Peace (9:30:34 PM): things sometimes get out of hand
Peace (9:30:47 PM): and its a shame, because i really with people didn't resort to flaming
Peace (9:30:57 PM): a good arguement is awesome, and i lvoe a good arguement
Peace (9:31:05 PM): often it'll get heated... still, i love the arguement
Peace (9:31:34 PM): but when somebody starts flaming, it ruins it... partially because its rude, but mostly because its like someone stating their blatant disrespect to the topic being debated.
Peace (9:31:45 PM): do i think punishment should be stricter? no, hardly
Peace (9:32:02 PM): the administration has been treating the issues appropriatly.
Peace (9:32:37 PM): however, i will state, that should the administration do something that isn't appropriate, something that everyone is upset with, i will use my position as the president to do my best to change things.
Peace (9:32:56 PM): the rpesident is there for the people, and i have no fear of standing up against the admins, as kilk probably knows i'm sure
Dead Eye (9:33:02 PM): Done, a little over, Kilk go
Kilk (9:33:15 PM): I know, that in the past, I have been recognized as one who...how do you say... "Enjoy's a good argment...", As my opponent does also.
Kilk (9:33:47 PM): But I also realize that there is a difference between an argument and flaming.
Kilk (9:34:24 PM): Sometimes I feel that the admins see arguments as flaming, and close topics that should not be closed. Personally I think that the people who's topic was closed should have the right to appeal to the admin that closed their topic to
Kilk (9:34:29 PM): try to re-open it for discussion.
Kilk (9:35:11 PM): Generally we know when we have gone too far as forum members, and know when we are simply standing up for ourselves. And I understand that it DOES go too far, and the current restrictions are doing well, but I think that we could do
Kilk (9:35:37 PM): better if we were to be able to overturn some decisions to close topics. These decisions can easily result in flaming of the admins, and continued flaming of the opposing parties inolved.
Kilk (9:35:39 PM): Finished.
Dead Eye (9:35:58 PM): Thank you, before your rebuttle I would like to announce that a seperate Debate Number 2 shall be held about questions dealing with the actual forum and how it is sperated and different parts of it
Dead Eye (9:36:16 PM): (because we are running out of time) Go!
Peace (9:36:29 PM): flaming is when the arguement turns to personal attacks that are rude.
Peace (9:36:38 PM): and when those are made, topics tend to be closed
Peace (9:37:07 PM): i have to agree, that it sucks to have a good arguement ended because of flaming, but thats why the punishment system is in place for the offenders.
Peace (9:37:14 PM): finished
Dead Eye (9:37:32 PM): Rebuttle Kilk?
Kilk (9:38:09 PM): Restating my goal:
Kilk (9:38:33 PM): I want to put together a system where a party's argument can be reviewed for re-opening when closed due to flaming.
Kilk (9:39:02 PM): This would make the flaming not spread to other topics, as has been shown in the past, because if arguments are not finished, they will continue until resolved, and if not designated to the topic in which they originated...they can
Kilk (9:39:05 PM): get downright ugly.
Dead Eye (9:39:18 PM): Thank you

Dead Eye (9:40:39 PM): Your position on newbies, what to do when they join, any plans for them?
Dead Eye (9:40:44 PM): Directed to Kilk
Kilk (9:41:40 PM): (Was speaking with a member, I'm sorry)
Kilk (9:42:00 PM): Newbies are something that we all have to deal with, and if they are not respectful, it can be downright irritating, I know...
Kilk (9:42:32 PM): But these grammarless newcomers to the forums can be taught by example from seeing how other memebers operate, this has been happening for the entire two years now.
Kilk (9:43:06 PM): One learns best by not simply adopting the customs of one, but by learning from the entire group, and gaining acceptance from the entire group as a whole.
Kilk (9:43:40 PM): Learning by observance and participation is the best way to do so I believe, and I enjoy the current system (or lack thereof) of training newbies to be full forum members.
Kilk (9:43:51 PM): Finished.
Kilk (9:43:57 PM): (pressed for time...Argh.)
Dead Eye (9:44:09 PM): 1 second over but your first time over, good job with your problem in beginning
Peace (9:44:35 PM): as i said before, i support wolf bites training program
Peace (9:44:43 PM): that will get newbies solidly placed in the game
Peace (9:44:51 PM): which will hopefully keep them here longer
Peace (9:45:01 PM): can newbies be annoying? yeah sure, i sure as heck was according to cal
Peace (9:45:07 PM): but i learned...
Peace (9:45:08 PM): wait did i learn?
Peace (9:45:16 PM): i still never use a capital i....
Peace (9:45:25 PM): but oh well, the point is, they will come along eventually
Peace (9:45:37 PM): when you first join a community like ours, you don't quite know how to act
Peace (9:45:46 PM): and eventually everyone learns how people will react to them
Peace (9:46:19 PM): if they come on wanting attention, they will probably get it, but i want ti enfluince it to be positive attention, not negotive because we're welcoming community, right kilk? ;-)
Dead Eye (9:46:43 PM): We are running out of time, Kilk do you wish to have a rebutte?
Kilk (9:47:02 PM): I believe that you are referring to the recent post by "Perfect..." and my response.
Peace (9:47:51 PM): it was a generalized referral, although i reolise your not a mean guy
Kilk (9:48:06 PM): The general concensus was that the particular "newb" was a member under another name, which was what I and several other members discussed, and came up with. It is unnacceptable to act that way in front of people.
Kilk (9:48:11 PM): The arrogance was unnecessary.
Kilk (9:48:17 PM): (From Perfect)
Kilk (9:49:00 PM): Anyhow, I continue to believe that the best way for a newbie to learn to fit in is by immersing themself in the forums and learning to function as all the other members have. This method seems to produce the best results.
Dead Eye (9:49:17 PM): Done Kilk
Dead Eye (9:49:30 PM): And Peace, no speaking during rebuttle
Kilk (9:49:37 PM): Had to finish respond to Peace after I was interrupted...My apologies
Kilk (9:49:44 PM): responding*
Dead Eye (9:49:46 PM): It is acceptable, only few seconds off
Dead Eye (9:49:50 PM): Peace, any rebuttle?
Peace (9:50:28 PM): i figured if perfect was a new member, he would have known that regular was resetting soon... adn that he would most likely need people to know who he was before he could get a team together... but oh well, he's not being debated.
Peace (9:50:49 PM): i'm just saying that i'm supportive, regardless, to new people. thats all i'm saying, heh
Dead Eye (9:51:07 PM): Thank you

Dead Eye (9:51:11 PM): because of our shortened time
Dead Eye (9:51:22 PM): We are going to hold a second debate at a latter time to be discussed
Dead Eye (9:51:40 PM): So here is final debate topic
Dead Eye (9:51:47 PM): Your closing statement
Dead Eye (9:52:20 PM): Which can include your opinions of RWL, any ideas, opinions of opponent without flaming them
Dead Eye (9:52:25 PM): Or anything else you wish to mention
Dead Eye (9:52:33 PM): you each will be given 5 minutes, with no rebuttle
~At this time a ?coin toss? is thrown. Peace wins, and decides to go second. Kilk goes first~
Kilk (9:55:43 PM): All I have to tell you is that I am for a better RWL.
Kilk (9:55:49 PM): A better RWL does not have to mean a CHANGED RWL.
Kilk (9:56:25 PM): Though changes will be made in security, member treatment, and forum makeup, I will do everything in my power to keep the parts of RWL that the members love, and continue to come back for, intact.
Kilk (9:56:45 PM): The game, and the community have evolved much over these two years, and member numbers are an issue.
Kilk (9:57:07 PM): Shouldn't other members have the opportunity to fall in love with the parts of the community that you did when you were new?
Kilk (9:57:23 PM): (Other members being newer ones.)
Kilk (9:58:04 PM): Vote Kilkenne / Nevadacow, RWL Presidential Elections, '04, and get a Better RWL, yet the parts you like will remain how you like them. I can give you my guarantee.
Kilk (9:58:55 PM): My guarantee as a member of this community from the first week of it's conception. That IS all I can offer you to make you believe my case.
Kilk (9:59:21 PM): Good luck, and make the right decision. I hope you enjoyed the debate, and thank you once again to Deadeye and Peace Alliance for being a part of it.
Kilk (9:59:29 PM): Finished

Dead Eye (9:59:56 PM): Peace Alliance, go in 5
Dead Eye (9:59:57 PM): 4
Dead Eye (9:59:58 PM): 3
Dead Eye (9:59:58 PM): 2
Dead Eye (9:59:59 PM): 1
Dead Eye (10:00:01 PM): Go!
Peace (10:00:51 PM): RWL is a wonderfull place. but things can be made better. Maintaining the community we ahve right now is so important. As RWL's first president, i will make it my responsibility to make some important changes. Does change have to
Peace (10:00:54 PM): happen to RWL?
Peace (10:01:15 PM): no, however there are SO many things that could be done to make the community a better place
Peace (10:02:17 PM): the OSOBO party is prepared to take all their new ideas, some of which i will introduce in the next debate or in a official post, but we have many many ideas on how to change RWL, changes like forum organisation, html formatting for
Peace (10:02:18 PM): posts
Peace (10:02:47 PM): as the organiser of commanders, i will continue to work hard to bring more people to the game
Peace (10:02:59 PM): continue to work hard in finding new ways to balence the game, and make it more fun
Peace (10:03:38 PM): RWL has SO much potential, and if you want that to happen, i an positive you must vote for Peace Alliance/winhounds when you go to vote
Peace (10:03:43 PM): windhounds*
Peace (10:04:43 PM): we are the idea makers, we are the ones looking the the future. i am being completely honest, not just trying to win the election, when i say i want to do everything i can for RWL, thats why i volinteered to help organise commanders
Peace (10:04:54 PM): and thats why i've put so much work into making commanders as good as it can be
Peace (10:05:25 PM): i will put that much work into everything i do as president, to expand the horizons of our wonderfull community. to make it more fun, and to improve on what is already an amazing thing.



Edit: I adjusted a few things to make the reading easier, hope you don?t mind. WB

[Kilkenne]

 I'd like to note that anywhere I stopped and then started again mid-word was because it was on an AIM chat., and those rooms don't allow me to get out more than a couple of sentences at once...

[Peace Alliance]

 yeah that was annoying. i think we should have let dead eye edit this. at least edit the time lines out...

dead eye, if kilk agrees can we have this redone? just edit a new one overtop so that people can read it... we've only had like 2 pageviews so it wont matter.

[wolf bite]

 I had edited Your SNs for your IM names. I also put "returns" to break it up by question. But you are right, editing into PHs by person would make it a lot better.


Wolf Bite

[Kilkenne]

 True...But I think spelling and grammar should stand as they are still...

[Holby]

 I don't think spelling and grammar should be any factor in who is President, so editing for spelling and gramma makes much nicer reading.

[Peace Alliance]

 yeah, leaving spelling and grammar as it is gives kilk the edge 'cause i'm a bad speller! lol

and i think our podeoms should be the EXACT same height, or else i will... um... ionno...

[wolf bite]

 and peace, who did your make up? seemed to shine win the lights. and what was that ear piece Kilk had in his ear?


Wolf Bite

[Peace Alliance]

 naw, it was shiney 'cause i was sweating, it was really hot in there. i'm good under pressure, but not if the pressure is in the atmosphere, making it hotter, oh man.  

[Kilkenne]

 Holby - Seeing as none of us are really talking to one another, spelling and grammar make all the difference. It is like when everyone complains about the President "not being able to talk right." Well, so be it.

[Dead Eye]

 It is up to you guys. If you really want me to...I guess I will. I am just going to repost it in here, should be in by end of night.