Excuse You?

[Juby (Tercios)]

 ummm Wilwood, you attacked me 55 times for telling people about Enormous stick wielders attected me 52 times.  Don't think that leaving your clan will make you immune to me.

[windhound]

 

SE is beserk. If you will look at this:

Time Ago Attacker Defender Land Attacks
1 days, 21.5 hours ago Enormous Stick Wielders Now (#38) (?)
S.E. The Balrog (#477) (?)
Umbar 7,702 19
7 days, 22.5 hours ago The Balrog (#477) (?)
Umbar Enormous Stick Wielders Now (#38) (?)
S.E. 3,826 11
7 days, 22.6 hours ago Enormous Stick Wielders Now (#38) (?)
S.E. The Balrog (#477) (?)
Umbar 12,535 52

As you can see, I made no attacks on him, he took 12,535 land from me. I then tried gaining just a bit back, around 4k, and he goes and takes 8k from me. I am ok if he just took some land grabs, but the first attacks he made, that were completely unprovoked (I had not touched anyone from SE) he did 52 attacks! I mean 52! I was like rank 35 too! I don't think I had attacked anyone! I mean, that is just brutal warfare, and an act of war! He has made 71 attacks on me, I have made 11 on him! I mean, what is going on SE?

...that info, as it has been said 10k times, is extremely skewed...
you cannot rely on it..
it once told me that somone attacked me 12x and took 1 acer...  when infact they attacked me 8 and took 4kish...

[RazorClaw]

 It's been said ten-thousand times? Do you realize that that is approximately 10.013 times per member?

[Larrusus Deathspear]

 Well Juby, he did attack you lots of times, and sacked lots.        
But, you had a lot of land, and you didn't die, and attacking is part of the game.

So, why are crying about it?? :huh:  

[windhound]

  :rolleyes:  @ Razor

Juby and I are having a delightful chat over the ingame message system about Wildwood's attacking, then a few days later joining BA
he's flatly refuseing to take less than 5 bil in cash a bil food to repair damages, which is a bit obscene from my point of view, though still 1/2 of his original asking... yet I have told him that he will face the wrath of BA and /possibly/ Umbar should he smash Wildwood, as he had plenty of time to get revenge before they joined BA...

I donno...  live and let die if you ask me..  he keeps going on about how it was unprovoked..  he was apart of Ablaze, who was warring with SE at the time, albet a rather onesided war..  if you are part of a clan then you accept the consequences, in this case being smushed..  Boar was killed for being apart of RFC and I of Loren...  countless others aswell...

*yawns*

[Dead Eye]

 SE is pretty done now, its only member is in vacation. Wildwood left them, he told me he wouldnt continue being chaotic and war like, so that pulled him out. The other one, I forget his name, told me he would like to be peaceful and join us and create alliances, then he went sucidal, hit many people, then killed himself I think. So SE is done, or at least what they once were. If they come back and become peaceful, the Empire of Umbar shall have no problems with them. Juby, listen to me. Wildwood has asked for forgiveness, and the clan of BA guards him. The Peaceful ones claim him not a threat to peace, and so should you.  

[Juby (Tercios)]

 I never attacked them, if one person from a clan attacks me, I attack that person back, not a random person from that clan, and theirs two logical reasons for that, 1. you don't want to make more enemies, 2.  You want back what was taken from you in order to punish those who would take it.
Razor claw, I didn't have much land (about 10K), they were kill attempts, not land grabs.
In any example you can think of where someone was as grossly attacked as I was, there was always retaliation, nobody ever got away with it unscathed.
Windy is being a wee bit deceptive, my bare minimum was 4 payments of 1 bil dollars and 250 mil food, once a week, but it had to come from wildwood.  Wildwood should pay and it should hurt, this last and final offer is about as good a deal as can be gotten.  Originally I told windy that my attacks on wildwood did not reflect his clan and this was seperate, but windy demanded on arbitration.  The reason it took a few days that allowed wildwood to yellowbellied jump to BA because I was saving turns to smushle him (not kill of course but a smushling was in order).

[windhound]

 'scuse me?
I will go quote myself

Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:56:30 -0700
From Blue Dragon (#437) (?)
*yawns*
I dont suppose I could possibly negociate a truce between you two?

~windhound


That is not demanded arbitration, where I went defencive is where you said


Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:35:11 -0700
From Tercios The Common (#293) (?)
Well I said 10 billion dollars and 2 billion food but I know he can''t afford it, so I''m unsure, perhaps you can arbitrate something interesting?


You do realize, ofcourse, that being smashed once is better than being a slave for a month right?
Wildwood has relitivly low net and would have to probably use 1/2 to 3/4 of their turns to meet that quota

You've raised my hackles, back off or be bitten
^_^

[Holby]

 Kudos, windy. I say just smash Juby and have him outta the way. hehe ;)  

[Juby (Tercios)]

 That was a little manipulative the way you put it, here is the entire conversation, not just bits and peiced molded into a biased context.

read it from the bottom up eh:

Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:52:25 -0700From: Tercios The Common (#293)
sorry bout the lines

It takes 3 or 4 days to max turns in order to smushle someone, plus you have to use turns to repair your damaged horde after someone attempts to kill you.

Come on now, this is a cut and dry case. There are no unique circumstances here.


Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:40:31 -0700From: Blue Dragon (#437)
*yawns*
please separate out your lines next time.. I get a headache reading that...

if you''re through then go ahead and hit wildwood, but expect retal..
you had ~3-4 days before she joined BA to get vengence, you did nothin, then she joined BA.

normally I have no problem with retal, but this case is special

g''day,
~windhound


Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:06:25 -0700From: Tercios The Common (#293)
I don''t want anything from you, I want wildwood to pay. Also, you have your dates confused, Loren was recreated AFTER Sworn to fight and destroy sworn, AND you had attacked them a few times at least. I didn''t do squat, if it was say 10 attacks I wouldn''t care but what kind of player would I be if I let a pair of psycho''s attack me 100 times and I did nothing? You attacking me for RETALIATING is just madness, your basicaly saying that you have no respect for diplomacy (ie not making blood enemies). You know as well as I do that he deserves a smushling for trying to kill me for no reason. Finally, I haven''t played turbo in a year, I don''t care about turbo examples, but even if this Boar person was killed for nothing, it doesn''t mean it''s okay and I''m guessing that the clan mates and the new boar smushled the killers. So why can''t I get my revenge? Why are you so adamanetly opposed to people retaliating for such a gross undiplomatic misconduct?
I don''t want your freakin money or food and I will return anything YOU send, the bare minimum I am willing to accept, if you want wildwood''s psychoness to go punished without violence is 4 payments of 1 billion dollars and 250 million food (one payment a week and I would not expect one this week to give him or her time to reorganize his or herself).
How many people do you know that get to attack somebody 100 times without a reprisal? Your defence is pointless, in every example you can think of, reprisals were justly taken, so why is it that you are so determined to let this disappear, wildwood will cause wars for you, it''s in your own best interest to tone him down.

This is the last comprimise and I just want a response of War or acceptance, I am no longer willing to debate this further.


Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:52:41 -0700From: Blue Dragon (#437)
hehe

I was a member of Loren, and I didnt attack any sworn more than 5 times, then I got smashed, just for being Loren
Then I was killed for remaining with Loren
In turbo Boar was killed for being in RFC, no former offences noted

Please take a look at the top of your screen, two words should pop out at you, Redwall: Warlords

Please also note that warlords are war - lords
thus they like war, and will declare it at random

if you smash Wildwood then you will face rather severe retal from BA, and also forfeit entrance to Umbar, I''m not entirely sure how much that matters to you but meh...

If you will accept the 2 bil cash and 500 mil food then great, if not I''m not going to bother sending it, ''cause that''s my cap

*yawns*
*salutes*
~windhound

btw, I''m fairly sure Wildwood is a she


Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:50:22 -0700From: Tercios The Common (#293)
ummm, I wasn''t whining, this started by my telling you that I am at war with wildwood and that I don''t mean harm to you. you tried to resolve it rather then accepting that Wildwood had some smarts coming to him.
Read closer, my revised forgiving estimate mentioned a payment plan (ie not a lump sum, I was thinking like 250 mil once a week for 4 weeks).
And come on now, I had almost 4 billion food earlier now.
The 100+ attacks I suffered were UNPROVOKED, if I was in a clan and you attacked me, I would attack you, not your buddy who''d been minding his own business. the should have tried to kill someone who had actually attacked them (duh).
Punishments are meant to be hard to deal with, thats why wildwood has to pay so much or else he will continue to go psycho on people for nothing, which is what starts wars and could create enemies for your clan. What is the point of a punishment if it''s easy.
My initial plan was simply to smushle him in retaliation (which I have yet to do) and that was how I planned to punish him, it was your idea to negociate. But if you want to go to war because your clan mate thinks he can go psycho on people and get away with it, then be my guest.
If you want to do this, I got 2 words for you: Bring it.


Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:08:29 -0700From: Blue Dragon (#437)
you do realize the value of 1 bil food right?
my food: 1,330,282,199
it is unreasonable to suggust that somone as low in the ranks as Wildwood would beable to come up with 2 bil, much less 10 bil in cash..

my offenciveness is in response to your estimate, which was rediculous
I''m trying to avoid what happend in turbo by solving this by method A or method B, not doing nothing. I have thoes two choices, unless you want to simply drop the matter, which is method C, ignore.

Kills happen, I noticed you ignored the fact that you were in Ablaze when the attacks occured, and thus a reasonable target for SE, to whom they were warring with. If you did not want attacks you should not have been in Ablaze.

in the Sworn vs. Loren war kills were happening atleast every other day, they happen in war and you were simply a near casulty

I admitted Wildwood to BA with the knowledge you would probably be pissed, and was going to send you somthin, but since you want somthin that is impossible for me to give, you shall get nothin methinks.

Umbar is a strong ally of BA, and will not allow you to join should you go against us, I''ve already had a chat with Deadeye concerning this.

My suggustion?
drop it.
you''ve got, what, 3x the net of Wildwood and co. right now,
attacks are part of the game
live with it,
I had no idea you were such a whiner =P

do what you will
*salutes*
~windhound


Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:04:41 -0700From: Tercios The Common (#293)
A) I was just offered admission to umbar thank you very much.
B) I WAS THE ONE WHO WAS ALMOST KILLED, do not threaten me for being calm as I am about this matter, be greatful that I have been so diplomatic to assure you that I won''t involve you in any fighting.
C) I was going to reduce the fee in half (5 bil and 1 bil and even be willing for a payment plan (ie it didn''t have to be all up front) but I am unsure because of the offensiveness of the last peice of your message.
D) If I am a threat to one of your members, it is because of his own excessive actions, he is making an enemy for you, I am focusing on him.
E) If you want to go down this road I am perfectly willing to fight your entire clan before considering joining umbar (cause I really do not want to sour your alliance and I suggest you leave them out of this as well out of the same courtesy).

So do you want a fight or do you want to do whats right?


Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:52:30 -0700From: Blue Dragon (#437)
...they both took 10 bil cash and 2 bil food?
that''s, what, at the very least 50 mil net, so yeah..

meh.
let me put it this way, you can give a reasonable amount which I shall help them pay back,

or you could be put on a BA hitlist for being a threat to one of my members, which I might beable to get Umbar to help me with...


Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:35:11 -0700From: Tercios The Common (#293)
Well I said 10 billion dollars and 2 billion food but I know he can''t afford it, so I''m unsure, perhaps you can arbitrate something interesting?


Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:23:07 -0700From: Blue Dragon (#437)
heh.
give an estimated cost of reimbursal and I''ll see what I can do

thankee,
~windhound


Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:02:44 -0700From: Tercios The Common (#293)
well the problem was that a member of his clan sacked me 52 times unprovoked, I posted that in the forums and so Wildwood decided to sack me 55 times unprovoked just because I said S.E. was going loco (which they were). Now if you can arrange a reimbursal for these senseless and evil attacks then I will forgive and forget.


Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:56:30 -0700From: Blue Dragon (#437)
*yawns*
I dont suppose I could possibly negociate a truce between you two?

~windhound


Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:38:25 -0700From: Tercios The Common (#293)
g''day, I''m just informing you that I am still at war with wildwood as he was a member of S.E. who tried to kill me but I want to make it clear that attacks on wildwood reflect nothing towards my relationship with BA. In fact I would not be opposed to making a truce between your clan (sans wildwood) and myself.

The punishment has to be very hard on Wildwood or it'll just happen again, except the victim of an unprovoked kill attempt will be someone lesws willing to be diplomatic and wildwood will die or it'll lead to a nasty clan war.  He has to suffer in order to learn that you can't go psycho and get away unscathed.

And holbs, you'll notice I'm not scared to fight windy for gods sake, I am quite tempted to take on the entire clan for the challenge of it and only two of their members have even half of my networth.

[Dead Eye]

 Juby, listen to me now. Wildwood is sorry, he was playing the game. SE was warlike, but you have been before too (If you recall Sworn, we smusheled people exp Nohc, just for heck of it) For past two months, that is how SE has been playing, smush people, or be smushed. The Empire of Umbar and the Black Adders are changing that, and all of SE now knows it is wrong. You are back in top 10, to hit him would cost you! This is stupid. You need no worry about him. Touch him not, he is now protected by Umbar and BA. He is sorry, and offers you something, though too much will drain him, which is unexceptable. Windhounds could go the other way as Holby says, and have all out war with you, but that would destroy what we are working for! If you recall purpose of Umbar, it is to stop war and chaos, and your decision to keep up a war against Wildwood is just another way into Chaos. You are violating the prime derective of Umbar, it will not be looked on with cheer...

[Juby (Tercios)]

 it would be a lot of fun to take on an entire clan  :P
And I have yet to recieve and apology from wildwood.
My final offer is upon recieving an apologym $4 billion and 750 mil food within a month and I will no longer demand that only wildwood pay it.
I do not take attempted kills lightly, if you want to be peaceful and diplomatic, then this is the solution.
Can anyone here claim that they have not retaliated to an attempted kill?  I mean honestly, my restraint is if anything admirable.  As a recall, in the nohc case (which was an example of over zealousness, not a kill), two people were killed in retaliation.  My demands are very light and very reasonable.  I honestly should gain in some way for my restraint, I mean can you honestly say that if it were you, you would not retaliate to an attempted kill?

[windhound]

 um, actually yeah...
Walter Mitty in turbo..  he never retaled...  atall... after me and Cloud almost killed him..  he appaerntly came online when he had 20 acers left and messed us up..
Actually, I've never recieved much retal for my two kills in reg.. and thoes are only the kills I took, I helped out with a few more...  so 'cept bein' occasionally smushed back down I havnt been hit much..  'cant complain...  

I just realized somthin was left out of one of my messages to you...  the message system must have cut it off..   I never figgured to look...


Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:52:30 -0700From: Blue Dragon (#437)
...they both took 10 bil cash and 2 bil food?
that''s, what, at the very least 50 mil net, so yeah..

meh.
let me put it this way, you can give a reasonable amount which I shall help them pay back,

or you could be put on a BA hitlist for being a threat to one of my members, which I might beable to get Umbar to help me with... <---  not prefferred

meh.
~windhound

you lost the ending on that one...  must have been the < character...  *goes off to test*


but yeah..  
your demands are still quite a bit..  it took me a few days to repay Peace the 5 bil I  borrowed off him..  I cant keep any land, it sux muchly..  and Orcrist just sacked me like 14 times for no apparent reason, so that puts me back a bit..  

*yawns*
you might as well attack wildwood and accept the consequences, otherwise it'll be a couple years till you're payed off...  a dollar a day..  w00t...

[cloud]

 retaliation only boasts more retaliation, as I found out when I attack ablaze in reg, and LTA in turbo. But the matter of fact is that this is a game of cunning and wits, and wildwood was using his playing style, if you can't accept it, it's your problem, but BA doesnt owe you anything, and despite the breakup with my clan I'm still partially allied to them, especially windy. So an attack on them is an attack on me...think about your consiquences before you speak.

[Juby (Tercios)]

 Windy was the one who offered recomp, I was originally just planning retal,  it's all this talk of peace that made this offer come up.  Wildwood's playing style is begging for retaliation, I could accept it and just smushle him back for trying to kill me but there has been alot of calls for peace, so I propose what I propose.

It will take a couple days to get full turns so you have that long to agree to pay.