Loren

[Juby (Tercios)]

Okay, Okay, I will again spend my time to state what everyone knows and can be proven in posts.


1)   The clan of Sworn was created to be an evil clan by Dead eye.
2)   Opening day of sworn, they broke several pre organization treaties
3)   Opening day they did an all-out assault on the BA clan.
4)   Opening day they tried to kill the leader of the BA clan, thus forcing the BA clan to shut down.
5)   I don?t recall who succeeded in the first kill, but Sworn tried first and has done several.
6)   Sworn has members that do not have the clan flag that do not follow the truces of the clan so the clan can damage those it has truces with, in violation of those truces.
7)   Sworn has broken many truces with me before I ever took any offensive attacks.
8)   Sworn had spies in all forums and clans.
9)   The leader of Sworn took over a different person?s account that was a member of Loran to beg for aid and sent Loran?s supplies to Sworn.

I am sure I have forgotten a few of the war crimes of Sworn and its members. But I think I have made my point. If the good clan of Loran has to fight with the same disgusting forms of attacks that are being use against them, then that does not make loran evil, only defensive.

P.S. The sky is blue ?


Wolf Bite

my points are numbered to match with yours.

1) I agree, however we never really did evil things besides go BOO, were evil.
2) That's a pile of manure, we didn't have any treaties cause we started by saying, YEAH, were BAD, Booogity!  new clan, how the heck could we have treaties, your making stuff up eh.
3) Opening day we made a large scale, organized land grab, it was effective because it was organized, the point of a clan is lost if you don't organize yourselves, your mistaking evil with skill.
4) No we did not, this has been said over and over agian, we had a couple overzealous attackers, me and morzan made them stop halfway through the offensive, Guthorm swordmaster was a spyish member of Sworn, even if he betrayed us, he's seen the freakin topics telling our members that a kill was not right nor in our best interests to be actually evil and that they may NOT kill nohc.
5) We never attempted a kill, we basically smushled nohc and then Loren starting killing people  :rolleyes: , this was established weeks ago, it's been well known knowledge since we started.
6) We do not have out of clan members that violate our truces, any out of clan member would follow the truces (me for example with my insure clan till I was called upon to help the clan).  However we probably have allies (key word) who are not bound by our truces.  You are infering things and guessing at how things must be, this is not evidence, that is heresay and conjecture (booyeah!  :lol: )
7) Loren has broken many truces, everyone has been doing that, most clans do often in their existance (except maybe the good old loren  :P ), truces fall apart, people commit sneak attacks, it happens, it's not the greatest thing, but no one (except for maybe me  :D , I refuse immoral orders but still stand with my clan) doesn't do this.
8) There were spies in our forum, every war, people spy, we got spied, you got spied, don't act like your side has an ounce of moral ground here  :rolleyes: .
9) This is the first I've heard of this, I'd like some proof.

[wolf bite]

 Thanks guys for responding. All your responses were either "yes," "kind of yes," and to the last one was ?prove it.?

But the original question was ?Whether Loran wrongfully is being evil to the mild mannered Sworn??

I think the ?YES we started it? response from Sworn proves the answer to the question.

As far as breaking truces, I had a pre-organization truce with Sworn, was attacked by 3 members the first day. I forgave that breach, but was being attacked by 2 members constantly for a month that were working for Sworn, a breach! Then Ra?zac attacked me when he was hiding in Loran, a breach of the truce. Then attacked by Juska. Thus the clan is full of back stabbers.

Also, I can?t believe that you were just taking the land from where available when you would take someone down to 57 in land. So your statement that you were after land, not a clan, is incorrect.  Also, I think someone stopping you form a kill proves you were trying to kill. So who started trying to kill?  Just because the retal for your actions was better done then your first attempt to wrongfully kill does not make Loren wrong.

As far as the question # 9 that both of you refused to answer with more then ?prove it,? I will.

The horde ?the first? was Dead Eye and created on July 22 and made 132 over a period of over a month.

Sworn?s current Leader (Dead Eye) is Ra'zac created only 2 weeks after dead eye was created, but weeks before ?the first? was killed. Thus both hordes were playing at the same time.  Ra?zac was in the clan of Loran begging for aid. Point proved.


Wolf Bite

[Juby (Tercios)]

 Are you getting enough sleep wolf bite? Cause I only agreed with the first, in fact I called the second a pile of manure  :lol:

They were sacking nohc eh wolf, land or no land, it's called profit  :P

I told you in my post, it was over-zealous people in our clan, the leaders saw the problem and fixed it, I don't think the person (can't recall who it was) was trying to kill nohc, and even if s/he were, we still saqid, NO, stop doing that and shook our fists at them.

Your assumptions are silly and I am seriously doubting whether you read my post, and you can't just through around bizarre accusations like that.  You originally accused him of taking someone elses account, to which we replied your full of it, now you've CHANGED your accusations to calling him a multi accounter.  I seriously doubt the integrity of your claims, you can't just say that he was multi accounting for two weeks, cause quite simply, I remember him creating his account right after he died and being in protection, the new account, which may or may have not been used for espionage was created after the old one died, your word is not proof wolf bite, you can't just make up random dating figures and say it's proved  :rolleyes:  

[wolf bite]

 AHHHHHHHHH

I never changed what I said. I never said he was a multi, only hiding under someone's account. There is proof that the 2nd account was created before the first was killed.

They are not random, they are from the statments under horde stat.

The First (#212)
Networth $2,621,883
Land 0 Acres
Race Wildcat
Locations Southsward
Clans None
Rank 112
Attack? Dead
Defenses 243 (1%)
Attacks 132 (96%)
Kills 0
Land Gained in Attacks 47,872
Land Lost in Attacks 51,423
Created On July 22, 2004



Ra''zac (#252)
Networth $66,464,829
Land 11,111 Acres
Race Wolf
Locations Southsward
Clans Sworn
Rank 4
Attack? No Raiders
Defenses 461 (3%)
Attacks 393 (94%)
Kills 0
Land Gained in Attacks 185,962
Land Lost in Attacks 171,997
Created On August 7, 2004

[windhound]

 

CatFoodMade4Dogs: I am ******* Itha man

CatFoodMade4Dogs: Itha is my brother
CatFoodMade4Dogs: He made an account saying he would help
CatFoodMade4Dogs: Then he got in trouble from parents and stopped playing
CatFoodMade4Dogs: You killed my orginal account
CatFoodMade4Dogs: 2 days after he made his
CatFoodMade4Dogs: Me and Retto and Wolf have been up and down this before
CatFoodMade4Dogs: If you have no account
CatFoodMade4Dogs: And some one gives you theirs
CatFoodMade4Dogs: It isn't multi
CatFoodMade4Dogs: He hadn't used any turns

Deadeye's account of the events, matches up

I don't think the person (can't recall who it was) was trying to kill nohc, and even if s/he were, we still saqid, NO, stop doing that and shook our fists at them.

Rofl.
who takes the turns and resources to take somone down to, what, 100 acers if not for a kill?!  I'm sure whatever resources Nohc had had been forcefully extracted by that time, nah, they were going for a kill, I prodded Deadeye when I saw Ill was taking so many hits and asked why they were killing Nohc, and Deadeye basically said 'oops'

[Juby (Tercios)]

 excuse me?  did you neglect to read my post?  They were sacking him, that makes it profitable  :rolleyes: , I mean honestly, sometimes you people just don't think. (or maybe it's you don't read  :lol: )  And on top of that, if you had read my post, you would have saw that it said I do not believe s/he was trying to kill nohc because sacking makes perfect sense and even if s/he were, me and morzan made them stop, their was no kill plan, you probably have seen our forums and we know theirs been spies and you know this to be true, the only order was telling that person to stop, like I've said many times, that person was over-zealous  :rolleyes: , it makes complete and perfect sense.
and I beleive windy's statements exonerate him but I'm still unsure, it looks kinda confusing.  ohhh and Wolf, creation dates don't mean squat, get me a death date  :rolleyes:  

[windhound]

 

excuse me?  did you neglect to read my post?  They were sacking him, that makes it profitable  :rolleyes: , I mean honestly, sometimes you people just don't think. (or maybe it's you don't read  :lol: )  And on top of that, if you had read my post, you would have saw that it said I do not believe s/he was trying to kill nohc because sacking makes perfect sense and even if s/he were, me and morzan made them stop, their was no kill plan, you probably have seen our forums and we know theirs been spies and you know this to be true, the only order was telling that person to stop, like I've said many times, that person was over-zealous  :rolleyes: , it makes complete and perfect sense.
and I beleive windy's statements exonerate him but I'm still unsure, it looks kinda confusing.  ohhh and Wolf, creation dates don't mean squat, get me a death date  :rolleyes:

*sigh*
Juby, the question is do /you/ bother to read my posts?
I said:

QUOTE
I don't think the person (can't recall who it was) was trying to kill nohc, and even if s/he were, we still saqid, NO, stop doing that and shook our fists at them.

Rofl.
who takes the turns and resources to take somone down to, what, 100 acers if not for a kill?!I'm sure whatever resources Nohc had had been forcefully extracted by that time nah, they were going for a kill, I prodded Deadeye when I saw Ill was taking so many hits and asked why they were killing Nohc, and Deadeye basically said 'oops'

after a couple hundred attacks sack will take the majority of a person's resources, thus the attacks after Nohc was down to about 1000 acers shouldnt have taken much cash.  Sworn started with a big run, which is alright, tis what clans do, twas what Rome did (copycats  :P) but you should beable to CONTROL YOUR MEMBERS?!  Deadeye was online, he was watching the kill take place, and I doubt he would have stopped it should I have not messaged him, or possibly somone else talked to him to, I wouldnt know..  I do know that the response to my ingame message was almost immediate, showing that he was activly online...
argue what you like, till the sun burns out and the stars fade from the sky if that makes you happy

[wolf bite]

 ... and the sky truns green.


Wolf Bite

[Juby (Tercios)]

 1) We do control our members, I could have killed nohc had I felt like it (I was late after all) and morzan did tell him to stop.  I have consistently yeilded that it is possible that s/he was going for a kill, I just do not think that is the case and either way, we made s/he stop.  YOU are speculating motives and assuming were evil before YOU reconstruct things in YOUR head.  You have seen the forum posts or you know someone who has (spies), you know this to be true, we have consistently maintained our claims, you just keep coming up with conspiracy theories.  Conjecture and heresay are not evidence, you have our words and the word of your spies, all you have is a possibility.
2) Wolf Bite obviously didn;t read what I said cause he said I mostly agreed with him, I only agreed with the 1st comment and then I started the second by calling his claims MANURE  :lol:

Come on now, your arguements are about as strong as wet toilet paper!  :lol:  

[windhound]

 If you'd like to let me into your forums I'd gladly confirm your statements ^______^
but, as that would seem to be out of the question, I 'spose I'll have to take your word that there is some mysterious topic about people not to kill Nohc, however, this does not always work..  I usually end up reading the forums after I make my run, which wouldnt have helped in this case...  
and if you did have control you would have told all your members that you were /not/ going for kills..  if you think that Nohc would not have been killed should Deadeye not called it off you're deluded :P  

and I beleive windy's statements exonerate him but I'm still unsure, it looks kinda confusing. ohhh and Wolf, creation dates don't mean squat, get me a death date rolleyes.gif

if you want to see somthin comfusing try talking with Deadeye on aim ^_^  you have to go the back way to get a strait answer, ie, you annoy him with the blatantly obvious to the point that he spews over..  I actually ended up blocking him to end that convo..  he was spewing all over the place...  a few circumstances beyond his control were kinda edging on him..  meh..  Juby, you find a death date, I have the confession right above to support most of wolf's argument that Deadeye used an accound that wasnt his..  however, I belive that Itha hadnt been in control of Razac when Razac joined Loren..  I think Deadeye was at the helm then..  not sure...

oh, and did you know that wet toilet paper can be extremely strong?  depends on brand..  the toilet paper they give us here in the dorms is, well, a little better than the stuff they gave us for the high school toilets, but it still needs to be layered once or twice before a wipe to prevent your hand getting coated..  *coughs*  erm, yeah...

[Ashaman]

 C'mon, why bother with who did this and who did that arguments?  It's over, done.  Lets move on and continue the senseless war :)

[wolf bite]

 Juby, think of what you are doing. You are arguing with an admin that can see who people are as to who people are.  With out my ?powers? I had wondered if Dead Eye was a multi based on some things I noticed in the game. As an Admin I found that Dead Eye had taken over another account. Although I did not approve of what he was doing, it was not cheating. Because I found this out as an admin, I could not warn my clan as to who Dead Eye was. Now that it is past, and Dead Eye has admitted this somewhat openly, I can clearly state that when Dead Eye was killed, he took over a preexisting account. Fact!

All we are saying here is that Loran, because of attempted kills, and other war crimes against them, has had to move up in their playing. But fighting fire with fire is not that Loran is unfair, just doing what Sworn has forced them to.


Wolf Bite

[Juby (Tercios)]

 my main problem is that you implied he was using two accounts at once, as I see it, he had an account, got killed, then spied with another one, I'm pretty sure you got duped, I honestly don't think that he was using two accounts at any times and he probably lied a whole lot but I don't think he ever cheated.  I mean theirs alot of accusations going about and no proof, I suggest you drop it.

And I've said this about the nohc things before, their was an over zealous member, and we put him in line, why is that so hard to understand?  ask guthorm swordmaster, he was in our clan as a spy I think, he's probably seen the couple topics on killing, one was a debate on killing, in which we decided against, another is a topic on nohc specifically telling people to stop on top of our PM's.  You've had spies, we know you know.

We smushled nohc, you killed our people.  Your being evil, were not being all that bad.  :P  

[wolf bite]

my main problem is that you implied he was using two accounts at once, as I see it, he had an account, got killed, then spied with another one, I'm pretty sure you got duped, I honestly don't think that he was using two accounts at any times and he probably lied a whole lot but I don't think he ever cheated.  I mean theirs alot of accusations going about and no proof, I suggest you drop it.

I implied?  Where? I think I said he used another account that was already active when his was killed. A fact.

Still after I tell you that I know 100% what happened, you question that I was "duped."  AHHHHHHHH

But since no one in Sworn attacked him when he was in Loran for weeks, I think it is not a big surprize to Sworn.  The only people Dead Eye attacked in Sworn right before he left Loran was the new members from QMT so that his buddies in Sworn could get the land from their own clan by attacking him. If I was a member of Sworn, I would check to see if I was one of those "expendable members" attacked by Ra'zac.  Hey guys, there is room for you on this side.  Hehe


Wolf Bite

[Larrusus Deathspear]

Do you think S.E. is playing just to make the mediocre players feel good by comparison

that was rude