Loren

[Holby]

 Athel Loren has a colourful history that few other clans can equal. It has risen to power several times, and struck down those that have violently tried to take over.
But in doing so, it never fought a war without honour and good reason. And for these reasons and the devotion of its members, it has never lost a war.

Today, a new challenge awaits, in the shape of Forsworn. Loren has often had the backing of the game behind it, an undoubted factor in its success. I hope for this same support. We know Forsworn attempts a format similar to ROME, despite how eloquently they may put it.
I ask that you assist me in removing the biggest threat to this game's wellbeing, be it through an alliance, your individual efforts, or as a Loren member.
Please contact me via PM, IM, or E-mail (holby@blackadders.com) if you wish to help me and Loren.  

[Juska]

 Yep, those 89 attacks Loren sent my way without delcaration of war were very honourable and I bet you had good reason.

The Forsworn will fight to this enemy untill the last man, all shall fall to the Forsworn's armies!

~Juska Asst. Leader of the Forsworn

[Morzan]

 I tried putting peace with the people of RWL, and I made sure Nohc and everyone else was NOT killed. I put rules down, and asked if the people wanted treaties. No one answered. We wanted a little peace, and that was when we only had 2 members in the top 10. And some how the great Holby decides we are like Rome? Somehow the great Holby thinks we are all in the top 10 and attacking like wild? Oh but of course if the great Holby thinks it. Even Wolf Bite has stepped down and away from a war because he obviously does not see us as a threat or an evil being. Oh but the great Holby would join a cause like this, he did with Rome. But now he is the good guy, gonna take us out as if something like this was evil. Go boil your head Holby, because if you don't, I'll rip it off.

Morzan

[Juska]

 You can't kill Holby Morzan, I already promised him I'd do it.

[Juby (Tercios)]

 hmmmmmmmm....didn't Loren fight Rome to end their domination?  Forsworn isn't dominating, your assuming their gonna turn out like rome and trying to kill thm in their infancy rather then giving them a chance, as an alumni of Loren I will not be joining this Loren  :o , for shame Holby  ::disagrees::  poor show.

edit:  Heh, watch, my deeds from my days in Loren will come under fire just like kerry  :lol:  and by next week the story'll be that I never rose past 20th rank and was never assitant leader  :P  

[Guthorm Swordmaster]

 I want a piece of Loren too.

[wolf bite]

 Lets keep this in perspective. Sworn started their clan to challenge the game. They posted their role play how they are evil.  They planed for days, then did a mass sneak attack, almost killing one player. Their main attack was against the BA who had to shut down to save their players from the attacks and poisons. Sworn had requested a temporary truce with me.  However on the night they started, 2 of their members took shots at me to see if they could break me under the Sworn flag. Another player did a suicide leader attack to try to get my defenses down, then joined Sworn immediately after to hide behind the truce I had with Sworn.  I have yet to see this new clan show much honor.

If the same people of clan (BA)  that Sworn had attacked reforms under the name of Loran to fight back against the damage done, then I don?t see how Holby is acting wrong to retaliate against a first unprovoked major attack.

Even Wolf Bite has stepped down and away from a war because he obviously does not see us as a threat or an evil being.

Not really. I have been attacked in violation of the truce (everyone know how I feel about that).  Although I had worked on a retaliatory plan for 3 hours that would have dismantiled Sworn, I decided against it. First, they are not much of a threat as of yet.  Also the game is starved for land, if I was to drop down my net to reach them and sweep up all that land and protect it, then the game would be harmed.  But I am not happy.


Wolf Bite

[Juby (Tercios)]

 I recall this issue, you sent a slightly confusing message to me:

Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:31:57 -0700From: wolf bite (#6)
last night *I Am Censoring The Name* made a suicide missions against me with leaders to try to get over mine. Not only did he not make it, but I have now refixed my leaders. But this means that his leaders with the penelties are very low now. Have one of your people in his range for after his resorces and we will call it even form those attacks yesterday.


Wolf Bite

I offered to reimburse you, personnally, for the losses you suffered at the hands of the suicide attacker, because s/he was quite weak as is, but you never responded.  We offered to fix things, and this was a rogue action (I doubt it was a suicide, s/he probably just thought s/he could break you and kept trying oddly enough), we extended to you the fig branch and apologized, that is about all we can do, So I'll thank you to either tell me what you want or to leave this issue in the past.

Finally, our "unprovoked strike on the game" was truely just a co-ordinated land grab, no one objects to an individual land grab and we are just taking advantage of the benefits of being in a clan.  As for Nohc, I extend my most sincere apologies, it was the result of a couple over zealous members and their is even a thread in our forum rebuking the possible killing of nohc.

[Juska]

 The attacking of Nohc was to prevent a threat from taking place, Nohc can't fight us because he only has food, but he can challenge us in net. Swron takes full responibilty for the attempted kill run on Nohc. If one of our members had more turns Nohc would have been killed. Morzan hadn't none Nohc was Ill at the time of the attack, I did and think a few more did also. Personally I was for the killing of his empire.

I didn't know that #100 had attacked you, and that #8 also tried. This matter will be resolved.

[wolf bite]

 Ah ?, you and another one of your clan also took shots at me that night.  A truce is a truce! It does not work that you try to see if you can backstab, then if not pay the damages for the failed treason.

And as far as the suicide attacker, it was intended to lower my leaders in hopes that someone else could break through. 21 Leader attacks when he is getting a penalty will have dropped his leaders so far down that he would never get them back up to break me, and he is not a beginner. The Nameless Fear Returns (I see no need to censored what anyone can see on a search) was setting me up for someone else to break me. And I did say what I wanted in return for your clan breaking the truce, for your clan to take out my retal on him for me, you refused. The damage done to me was to have had to take 200 turns with a full load of armies to get my leaders back, your whole clan can?t afford to pay back what that cost me.

You just don?t get it, and never have. The leaders of a clan have the responsibility for the actions of the people they allow to join their clan. You can?t claim to be the good guys as you close your eyes to your members trying for kills, forcing a clan to disband, and breaking truces.


Wolf Bite

Edit: Posted at the same time as Jaska in responce to juby.

[windhound]

 *shrugs*
Sworn is too big to be allowed, it has roughly half the game's active players, ofcourse there are going to be clans against it..  

it forced BA to disband, and had I not been online at the time of your coordinated attacks I probably woulda been smushed as many others were..  thankfully most of yall were nice enough not to online attack..  

Firefox stands with Loren

sry Sworn, but at this point the game is in no condition to support a 'super clan' as you have set up..  it is simply too big, you cant control your own members, much less protect them all..    

[Guthorm Swordmaster]

 I think most of our members can handle themselves............

[Juska]

 I wish someone would have brought this to my attention before now....grumbles....."pokes juby" Unless #100 has some kinda of miracle explaination he will be kicked out by this time tommorow and the retals will be given. Even if it doesn't fix the truce it will be done.

windy- If clans this size weren't allowed then we wouldn't have a clan this size, why don't you get blades to side with loren and stop complaining. We will control our members. Each one of us can protect themselves.

Wolf Bite, it's jUska not jaska just clearing that up.

[windhound]

 sacking is allowed, so it attacking online, so is attacking somone unlimited times if they are in a clan, ~21x if clanless, killing is sure allowed,

all these things are allowed, but none of them is very good..  you yourself muttered rather darkly about the attacks on you, but they are part of the game yes?  as is retal..  

*shruggeth*
massive clans that take up half the game's members are allowed, sure..   but where are you going to get your land when you've run out?  all big clans have this issue..  and its the crumbling point for most.. we're just helping yall towards the crumbling point ^_^

[Juby (Tercios)]

Ah ?, you and another one of your clan also took shots at me that night.  A truce is a truce! It does not work that you try to see if you can backstab, then if not pay the damages for the failed treason.

And as far as the suicide attacker, it was intended to lower my leaders in hopes that someone else could break through. 21 Leader attacks when he is getting a penalty will have dropped his leaders so far down that he would never get them back up to break me, and he is not a beginner. The Nameless Fear Returns (I see no need to censored what anyone can see on a search) was setting me up for someone else to break me. And I did say what I wanted in return for your clan breaking the truce, for your clan to take out my retal on him for me, you refused. The damage done to me was to have had to take 200 turns with a full load of armies to get my leaders back, your whole clan can?t afford to pay back what that cost me.

You just don?t get it, and never have. The leaders of a clan have the responsibility for the actions of the people they allow to join their clan. You can?t claim to be the good guys as you close your eyes to your members trying for kills, forcing a clan to disband, and breaking truces.


Wolf Bite

Edit: Posted at the same time as Jaska in responce to juby.

What are you talking about?  We did take responsibilty, We apologized and offered re-imbursement.  Thats about as well as can be done.
Also, I object to your implying that he was weaking you for a bigger attack, it could well be that he was weakening you (most of us had full turns) and then he planned on regaining his leaders by using turns then attacking again, perhaps he did this a few times.  I have told you before and I am reiterating myself, there was no plot to get you, your not a priorty because you are not a threat because you don't attack anyone.
The reason I censored his name was because this is between YOU and HIM, now he'll have half the game on him which is quite unfair.
Name your price (no matter how high it is) or accept our apologies (or both) but don't try an.d sully our name for the actions of a member or a land grab, sheesh