You know what I'm sick of

[calria]

ah well, i think coffee guy did nothing wrong, i think nohc did nothing wrong, and i think this could all be settled over a nice cup of... tea?

Agreed, in my humble opinion.

Scones, anyone?

[Holby]

 No thanks.
Something I find funny. According to Nohc and Juby, this guy had no turns left to use, did he? So attacking online is perfectly reasonable. However, the guy attacked back. Makes you wonder, no?
I've spent two hours using my turns before...

[wolf bite]

 Okay, lets look at this with a more objective point of view. I have been talking to him this whole time and have been watching the news. Just spent some time checking the time stamps against the mail. It seems your clan had a planed attack and took 2/3 of his land when he was on line:


Tue, 4 May 2004 12:50:04 -0700
From: Prince (#34)
You don't mind if I attack you, do you? You're staying online, and it doesn't look like you're doing anything...

Tue, 4 May 2004 12:55:00 -0700
From: coffee break (#40)
I was not on line at the time you attacked and your attack was within honor limits

Comment: Seems you attacked him when he was off line and only about 6 times, he had no problem with it. So right there you should know that he was not using some major strategy of staying on line, nor did he have a problem with losing some land within reason.

Tue, 4 May 2004 12:59:27 -0700
From: Prince (#34)
Thank you, but I still want your land. XD That's how the game goes... You have 12 minutes to do whatever, if you're still on then, I'm gonna have to take it...

Comment: Now you tell him that you are going to continue even if he is on line. You then attack as the turns reset which does not show a person on line until they make their next click. So he was on line.

Tue, 4 May 2004 13:25:14 -0700
From: coffee break (#40)
nohc, you just made a bad move attacking me on line.

Comment: he was warning you

Tue, 4 May 2004 13:26:13 -0700
From: Prince (#34)
I didn't do anything, was I supposed to wait an hour for you to get off while you were sitting there at your computer and laughing because no one would attack you? No, I'm not an idiot.

Comment: how do you know what he was doing?

Tue, 4 May 2004 13:33:58 -0700
From: coffee break (#40)
From Prince (#34) (?)
I'm not an idiot.

That is a mater of opinion.

Not only the on line attacking, but the number of stikes you are taking. such things do not make friends.

Comment: he warned you again

Tue, 4 May 2004 13:40:09 -0700
From: Prince (#34)
Opinion, yeah, of course. It'd be hard to prove without using IQ tests or something. Even then, someone with an IQ of 200 might think that someone with an IQ of 180 is dumb, or someone with an IQ of 100 might think that someone with an IQ of 180 is dumb. Anyway, it's an opinion coming from someone who is widely thought to be very intelligent. You were not using turns, so you weren't using the land. You can always take it back later. If you wanted to be friends, you would have allowed me to take your land, and could maybe asked me to pay you a bit for it. Otherwise, we should not be friends, because we are in different clans, and are natually rivals from both of us doing very well. You should know that I'm bad at making friends because I have many.

Tue, 4 May 2004 13:42:36 -0700
From: Prince (#34)
Forgot to add something...

Don't tell me that those attacks were a lot, because we both know that you attacked much to get that land. Anyway, I've only taken a fraction of your land.

Comment: there you are assuming again, did you check how many times he was attacking people?

Tue, 4 May 2004 13:45:27 -0700
From: coffee break (#40)
all my first attacks were limited to 4. my retals were limited to about 8. so your info is wrong. I have also not used sack or capture (yet), you have.

Comment: So you were using Capture and Sack against him as you were on line attacking him!

Tue, 4 May 2004 13:47:22 -0700
From: coffee break (#40)
and amazingly you continue to massively attack me as we were talking

Comment, so during negotiations you kept attacking him.

Tue, 4 May 2004 13:48:08 -0700
From: Prince (#34)
Is smashing one person a lot worse than hitting a lot more people a few times? In whatever case, you're up here with the more skilled players. Don't /expect/ any mercy.

Comment: So now you are making threats telling him you were going to keep attacking him?

Tue, 4 May 2004 13:49:10 -0700
From: Prince (#34)
Well, I wasn't going to stop if you still had a very good amount of land. I could have lost my land while we were talking, and my run ruined further.

Tue, 4 May 2004 13:55:56 -0700
From: coffee break (#40)
here, some advice: I am getting off line, best kill me before I get back.

Comment: Although you say he started with 50K and you left him with 30K land, you had Zeta come in and take him down to 15K. Between the 2 of you, you took 2/3 of his land.

Tue, 4 May 2004 13:57:51 -0700
From: Prince (#34)
We're not gonna kill you, I just wanted your land. Nothing more...

Comment: Seems you wanted most of his land and you did want more or you would not have been useing sack and capture.

Wed, 5 May 2004 11:50:01 -0700
From: Prince (#34)
What are you doing?

Comment: Seems you did not like him fighting back.

Wed, 5 May 2004 12:20:27 -0700
From: Prince (#34)
You feeling badly to tell me what you're doing? What is it?


Wed, 5 May 2004 12:25:38 -0700
From: coffee break (#40)
I think you know what I am doing, making you think *I really should not have attacked them on line.*

Comment: So he was letting you know that he would fight back and that maybe you should think before doing.

Wed, 5 May 2004 14:07:03 -0700
From: Prince (#34)
It's sure not working. It's more along the lines of... 'What the heck is he doing? All I did was take his land.' Also, 'The only reason that I shouldn't have is because of the retal that he would give. Wait... why would he give the retal? It's a waste of his turns, and it makes me want to kill him more. I don't understand him at all...'

Any could you please tell me why you wouldn't let me attack you? And why you're completely killing off everything I have?

Thu, 6 May 2004 16:27:13 -0700
From: Prince (#34)
*stops attacking*

Comment: per the news, you attacked him even after that time stamp even though he had stopped attacking you a day before.  Plus you have bounties out on him. This does not seem like you are working at resolving anything.


Wolf Bite

[Juby (Tercios)]

 Of course the guy had turns holby, I espied him once in when he was offline at the exact time of the updated info, of course he came online AGAIN the next minute before I could attack him and he had like 50 turns, and considering I've been waiting a couple hours on him, he's been sitting their doing nothing (his net did not change, I was so fixated on him I would have noticed) and because he's wasted so much of my time, he's built up turns to attack back, and usually his attacks are low in numbers but heavier the next day.  Why would he keep logging in every ten minutes if he were still using his turns because the start of most updates, he is offline till he logs back in.  This is just too obvious to be otherwise and he has been doing it since before me and nohc broke him.

[Devari]

 On a purely technical note, I believe people do not idle offline unless they have inactive for two turn updates.

That's the way it seems to work in the source code. Could be wrong, though. 'tis one of the few comments in the source code, and perhaps it is now out of date.

[Nohcnonk]

 When I added comments, I was trying to say what happened, to help explain the messages.  Of course, I have to show it from my view, which is different from his view of it.

Peace, I think that I was being very clear, and I had 5k land when I started attacking.  I also stated later that I had the most land after I had attacked more, but I still had plenty of turns, and he had the second most amount of land.

I did set a bounty, but that was because he had poisoned.  If someone poisons me, they almost always continue sacking, poisoning, stealing, murdering, etc., for the rest of the round.  He wouldn't converse with me about the matter, and still won't, so I have no clue whether he wants me dead, or if he plans on hurting me a lot more.  If he's not, then I could remove the bounty.  His lack of will to talk to me only shows that he doesn't care about it.

Also, when I'm attacking, I don't mind the first guy that hits me and takes 1/3 to 1/2 of my land.  If someone else hits after that, I normally don't mind too much, because I normally start with a lot of land, and the first attacker might not have lowered me to an average amount.  But it's normally the third that gets me.  They knock me down to 5-12k land, with little gain for themselves.  Juby's attacks on Coffee were on his own accord, I didn't tell him to attack him, nor have I told anyone anything about directing attacks on Might.  We are at war at the moment, so that will probably gain them some more attacks from my clan.

My tea cup is almost as empty as the chair across from me.

[Holby]

 

When I added comments, I was trying to say what happened, to help explain the messages.  Of course, I have to show it from my view, which is different from his view of it.

Not really, you were just lying about it. :rolleyes:

I did set a bounty, but that was because he had poisoned. ?If someone poisons me, they almost always continue sacking, poisoning, stealing, murdering, etc., for the rest of the round. ?He wouldn't converse with me about the matter, and still won't, so I have no clue whether he wants me dead, or if he plans on hurting me a lot more. ?If he's not, then I could remove the bounty. ?His lack of will to talk to me only shows that he doesn't care about it.

You're up the creek without a paddle. Hmm, I think you forgot to bring the boat, too.
You sack/captured him. And it was my knowledge you hit him first, and that he was online.
He tried to converse with you about the matter then and there, it seemed to me. But you were being... How should I word this? Hmm. A word starting with "a" and ending in "ole"
He has every right to hurt you more, you know, and he doesn't have to tlka with you, either.
Not wanting to talk with you means stuff all.

Also, when I'm attacking, I don't mind the first guy that hits me and takes 1/3 to 1/2 of my land. ?If someone else hits after that, I normally don't mind too much, because I normally start with a lot of land, and the first attacker might not have lowered me to an average amount. ?But it's normally the third that gets me. ?They knock me down to 5-12k land, with little gain for themselves. ?

In your strat you don't care. We know how you play. But you do care if someone hits you while you're using turns, while you're online, no? That's what you did to him.

[Holby]

Of course the guy had turns holby, I espied him once in when he was offline at the exact time of the updated info, of course he came online AGAIN the next minute before I could attack him and he had like 50 turns, and considering I've been waiting a couple hours on him, he's been sitting their doing nothing (his net did not change, I was so fixated on him I would have noticed) and because he's wasted so much of my time, he's built up turns to attack back, and usually his attacks are low in numbers but heavier the next day.  Why would he keep logging in every ten minutes if he were still using his turns because the start of most updates, he is offline till he logs back in.  This is just too obvious to be otherwise and he has been doing it since before me and nohc broke him.

Let's look at your quote there.
And let's look at this quote:

This topic is whether it is okay to online attack someone who is staying online for hours as a defence strategy

Regardless of the complicated, hard to read explanation of yours, it is irrelevant. He has turns, and is using turns. If he had no turns, he couldn't attack you. You can't even give the amount of turns he had correctly, and I see no reason to believe you on this matter when everything else you've said has been rather dodgey.
He had turns, he has a right to use them. If you and Nohc were playing honourably, you would have let him use those turns. He was not using sitting online as a strategy.
Better check your boat. It's got more water in it than your tea.

[Nohcnonk]

 

Not really, you were just lying about it. :rolleyes:

Lying?  Where did you get that idea?  I'm not and never was lying, though what I said probably wasn't the most accurate thing in the world; it was very close.  I didn't think that my friends would do something like this.

You're up the creek without a paddle. Hmm, I think you forgot to bring the boat, too.
You sack/captured him. And it was my knowledge you hit him first, and that he was online.
He tried to converse with you about the matter then and there, it seemed to me. But you were being... How should I word this? Hmm. A word starting with "a" and ending in "ole"
He has every right to hurt you more, you know, and he doesn't have to tlka with you, either.
Not wanting to talk with you means stuff all.

He was online, he was online for hours.  I asked him if I could hit him, I probably messed up there thinking that his reply meant "no", but he still could have told me that he was using turns.  Then, he stays online because I was being slightly assertive with him.  I sacked him once or twice, getting 50 mil at tops.  He stole what I think is 2.5 billion from me.  Doesn't even compare.  Not talking might get him killed, which isn't really what I want (I just called the bounty off, it seems like Juby is more the problem).

Regardless of the complicated, hard to read explanation of yours, it is irrelevant. He has turns, and is using turns. If he had no turns, he couldn't attack you. You can't even give the amount of turns he had correctly, and I see no reason to believe you on this matter when everything else you've said has been rather dodgey.
He had turns, he has a right to use them. If you and Nohc were playing honourably, you would have let him use those turns. He was not using sitting online as a strategy.
Better check your boat. It's got more water in it than your tea.

All he had to do what tell me that he was using turns, it's that simple.  I was playing honorably by asking him, instead of assuming that he was just sitting there so that no one would take his land.  His net was staying the same for long periods of time, by the way.  I was watching.

[Nohcnonk]

 Ok, everything aside... I think that this will help.  Juby and I should not have assumed what Coffee Break was doing and should have held off our attacks.  We did get a little greedy and took too much land from someone that was playing with attack limits and doesn't like to sack others.  I've talked to him, and we've decided to call this whole thing off. All bounties are canceled, my clan won't have any grudges against Coffee Break, and Might will be removed from "War" status for now.

[Juby (Tercios)]

 well right now he is the fattest in the game agian, and every ten minutes it shows him offline when it updates and tehn a minute later he's online agian, why would anyone log out and log in, over and over again if they were using turns?  He at least should have to either STAY online, or get offline, going on and off is really bothering me, cause he;s being obviuos that he's not using his turns and he has a hissy fit and online attacks you every time I hit when he's offline and he comes on online.  Holby, i'm not lieing at friggin all, think about this, if you come online mid attack, is your attacker expected to know this?  Would it be right for you to online attack someone when your attacker was just attacking you regularly?  Why would you log in and log off every ten minutes? (FYI, he's been doing this for about an hour now (since nohc got on an hour before so maybe longer) of logging out and logging back in).  Think about this holby, this isn't a matter of opinion or bias, it's his actions, and I'm thinking of this guy wasting our time.

[wolf bite]

 Ahhhhh, stop it already. If you were checking him for the last hour, then you were also on for an hour with your net not changing. So, your point?

I don?t think you know how the ?on line thingy? works. Once the turns reset, everyone shows off line, until they click something. Therefore if you keep clicking refresh and the turns update, you will be the only one on line that second.  Why not check as to the minutes to next reset?  So if you see nine minutes to next reset, then the persons has only not made a click for leas then one minute maybe only seconds. This does not make them off line. When I attack people, I usually start at 5 minutes to reset, so that I know that anyone showing off line has been so for at least 4 minutes. You really need to understand that you look off line, as does everyone, one minute after turn refresh. Does this make sense?

Sat, 8 May 2004 11:26:51 -0700
NEW: From coffee break (#40) (?)
hey wolf, I don't get it.


I agreed with nohc to post this in our terms of cease fire

(When Nohc and Juby had wiped out my land, I realized that this would happen over and over again. The best action was to retaliate in such a way as to let him know that I would not stand for it and to take away his ability to do so. Since his game is based on armies, resources and loyalty, the way to defend myself was to standard attack with capture then poison and incite rioting. I suppose I could have only attacked for land, then requested assurances as to less viscous attacks in the future, but that may also have escalated. In a way, I did try to communicate when I said that I wanted him to think that he should not have done what he did that I was looking for assurances. Then all would have been over. But when the swarm of attacks started from all sides, I dropped my attack limits and came out swinging. I also could have communicated much better that my only demand was assurances of reasonable attacks. ? Coffee Break)

I was writing Nohc back and forth to work out some kind of arrangement. I was on line typing in mail to their clan about a cease-fire. my net would not be changing if using the mail system, but was still on line communicating. they knew this. The cease-fire was arranged and terms agreed on. Then reta attacked me on line. I wrote him after 5 attacks that there was a cease fire, he wrote back for me to get off line so that he can attack more in violation of the agreement just made. Came back hours later to find 26 attack on me. What is up with these guys? - Coffee

You are in violation of the agreement just made. Bad show, bad show.


Wolf Bite

[Juby (Tercios)]

 uhhhhhh?  A) I was not told of a "truce" by nohc, I was only told their was no longer a war, B) he was easily the most land fat person in the game,therefore he's the obvious target, this guy has to realize that you can't expect to keep 60 K land  C) I told him to either stay offline or stay online, and stop logging in and out cause I was sick of him crying online attack when he just came online mid attack, so he just lied to you.  D) I maxed him out and he still had 35 ish K land, I did not attack him 26 times, he's lieing again.

[wolf bite]

A) he told you there was a truce during your attacks, you should have aksed nohc before keping attacking. Further, over 20 attack is how wars start.

B) who said he expected to kept it all, only that he was not only to lose it all to one person under truce.

C) Did you not at all read my above post about not attacking people right as the turns reset?

D) *counts* may have been 25 by you and one by Nohc. Juby it you are going to keep lieing, at least make it things that can not be so easlly proved.

Please everyone pull the news on #40 and count the shots Juby made on the guy on line and under truce.

Aslo, I don't see him on line all the time, does anyone else see him constantly on line?



Wolf Bite

[Juby (Tercios)]

 A) I asked nohc, we were both online, we were no longer at war.
B) He has a hissy fit everytime he is attacked, he had 60 K, expect big attacks.
C) why would he be idle while using his turns?
D) I maxed him out, how could we have hit him 26 times?
E) I did not attack him online, that is just a lie, ask nohc
F) He's not online all the time when he's lost his land
G) I've lost hours upon hours of time to this guy, I'm sick of it,

why do you assume he's telling the truth and I'm lieing?  cause yoour mad about how you online attacked me on reg?  I mean I'm not evil, i've never lied here, that guy is not some perfect little angel.

edit: and you do realize that he dropped me to around 4 K the other day with an incredible amount of attacks whereas I had never dropped him below 20 K, that sounds a little like a kill threat doesn't it?