3rdreich

[Larrusus Deathspear]

 Hey, ya ignore what this said, someone went into my forum account and did some stuff, and hacked my  in-game account and did some stuff and I'm still trying to find out the extent of who they made mad and attacked. so Wahtever, I have nothing against 3rdreick. I think it was someone from my school who heard us talking about RWL at lunch and sighned up and has attcked the people form schools accounts, his in-game account is Michael'sagay. So send him angry messages about this

[Juby (Tercios)]

 Well I'm a communist and partly of yugoslavian decent so I dislike nazi ideology as much, if not more, then most people and even with that in mind I still think that this is wrong and hypocritical.  I am reminded of Voltaire, "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it."
That said I would recommend to the 3rd reich clan that they try and be conscious of other peoples feelings, nazism is quite a traumatic issue, I myself know that 1.5 million serbs and montenegrins and an additional half a million bosnians died in concentration camps so the issue is very personal to me, I just want to tell them not to press ideologies of hate onto people(I doubt they really agree with nazism, it's probably just a military fancy but still...).
Also I noticed quite the oddity while playing turbo, I made a clan as a tribute to one of my favorite rap groups, OutKast (the rap group that won the grammy for best album of the year the other night) and quoted on the clan page a paticularly catchy hook of theirs from their song Rosa Parks, Ah Ha, Hush That Fuss, Everybody move to the back of the bus (this line is basically what was told to Rosa Parks and is the reason they called the song Rosa Parks)Do you wanna bump and slump with us, We the type of people make the club get crunk.  And following that people accused me of being racist because I had racist lyrics as my clan name and that they planned to kill me for it, so basically they accused to african americans (Andre 3000 and Big Boi of OutKast) of being racist to their ethnic background which is quite silly.  Oddly enough the clan name was Pimps In Action, or PIA which was built around hip hop lore, and I find it ironic that they are calling people racist while equating rap music and to a lesser degree african americans to such a reprehensible profession that is the slavery and objectification of women. I actually found it funny at first because have a couple half african cousins and I come off as Hispanic quite often but I began to be quite offended by their hasty assumption.  I was reminded of Noam Chomsky, a Jewish man who quite hilariously was called an Anti-Semite on TV, and he said that throwing terms like racist out there is like throwing mud, doesn't matter if it's true, everybody looks dirty.  I just want to warn these people about the gravity of calling somebody a racist.

sorry bout the post size

[Checkerpaw]

 Very nice message Juby . . I agree with almost everything you said, although I strongly disagree with communism, which you identify yourself as being a supporter of.  It bothers me that Hitler and the Nazis are today viewed as being utterly and completely evil, while the horrible crimes of Stalin and the communists, who were just as bad if not worse then the Nazis, have largely been ignored.

On the actual subject, I think it is very tasteless to name a clan after something of that nature, but I don't think it's necessary to go after them in the game because of that.  It's kind of pointless.

[The Weasel Liberation Mov]

 Checkerpaw, I think Juby refers to TRUE communism, of which Russia did not practice.


Does this mean that people who play WW2 computer games on the German side are Nazis? Think about it....

[Checkerpaw]

Checkerpaw, I think Juby refers to TRUE communism, of which Russia did not practice.

Actually, I did not say that Juby supported Stalin and what happened in Russia, although I realize I might have implied that he did.  I just kind of suddenly switched gears without clarifying.  Sorry.  I did not mean to say that Juby supported Stalin or anything of that nature.

[The Weasel Liberation Mov]

 That wasn't what I meant. What I meant to say is that it is hard to form an opinion on true communism as it has never (or rarely) ever manifested itself in any form outside the basic theory.



(Ah, and thanks for the explanation, Lazarus...)

[Checkerpaw]

 Oh, I see.  

Well, I don't know if I necessarily agree with that, either, although to a certain extent it is true.  I'd have to look up the exact definition of "communism" before I made any further comment.

[Juby (Tercios)]

 Thank you for stating that Devari, yes, here is a quick list of ways you can tell a real communist government from a corrupted communist state, 1) if there is a dictator it is not a communist nation, true communism has no leader, it would kinda of be like Canada's Parliament with no Prime Minister or The US Congress and House of Representative with no president, you can not have a peoples government without democracy because without democracy the bourgosie (rich people who control the means of production) just get replaced by a different ruling class so the cause of the proletariat (the working class) is back at square one.  True communism must be democratic and the only times communist government were democratically elected was in Spain and Nicaragua (both goverments were undemocratically overthrown). 2) If you know of any sort of rewards given (Stalin gave rewards to certain exemplary people, this defeats the purpose of communism) or any economic disparity (China has poor rural people and urban people who are approaching upper class) then it is not communist government.  Truly there has never been a communist government, the closest example that was sustained was Tito's yugoslavia after he had stepped down as dictator and remade the government into a large senate of sorts with no leader, though he had alot of influence as a member of the government for the rest of his years so he was kinda of the unofficial leader, and even Yugoslavia in it's great days (basically Tito's last 10ish years, prior to the mess of the late 80's) was not completly communist.

[Badrang the Tyrant]

 Ok, true communism involves only a strong central government, no private property (the land is divided among all the people of the land), and no rights that we Americans and (add your county here) take for granted.  

3rdreich is pretty strong right now just to get back on subject.

[Juby (Tercios)]

 once again, that is false communism, communsim is about economic equality being the only way to achieve pure equality for all, if one person has more power than another it is no longer communist, and if everyone has equal power then it is democracy, the moment one person is silenced or denied their rights it is no longer communist because power, money and private property are no longer equal.

[Badrang the Tyrant]

 Bah, whatever.  Communism can't work anyway...

[The Weasel Liberation Mov]

 It can be argued that we don't have "TRUE" democracy......

In general terms, a democracy is a form of government in which the people have the right to control their own destiny. In a democracy the people have the final authority, they have the right to make or at least influence decisions that affect their everyday lives. The term itself comes from the Greek words demos, meaning "people," and kratos, meaning "authority."

*  Direct democracy:  This is where everyone is given the opportunity to participate in making all policy decisions. In countries and large organizations, direct democracy is rarely utilized.
   * Representative democracy: This approach entails people voting to elect representatives in a free and fair electoral system to make policy for them under a wide range of checks and balances to help ensure leadership accountability.

In my opinion, direct democracy is the best form democracy. Where everyone is equal and everyone has a say. Which is, in fact, part of the theory of communism. And, like communism, it is unlikely that direct democracy will exist outside of very small organizations.

Even so, the representative democracy we have (I mean in the western world) doesn't quite live up to the definition. I don't quite see "a wide range of checks and balances", or at least enough...


(And I have no idea why I'm saying all this  :unsure: )

[Checkerpaw]

 I agree with what Weasel Liberation said at the end of his message.

One note--the United States of American was not founded as a democracy, nor was it intended to be a democracy.  It was what we call a republic, or a democratic republic.  When our leaders, and I don't care if they're Republican or Democrat, speak of this nation as being a democracy and speak in glorious terms about democracy in general, they are revealing their appalling ignorance about the foundation of this country.

I agree with Weasels when he says, "I don't quite see 'a wide range of checks and balances', or at least enough..."  Our political system has become corrupted--politicians basically rob the people of almost half their money and often spend it on frivolous things, the courts have abandoned any pretense of interpretating the law and Constitution, I could go on and on . . . And what makes this even more sickening is that almost all politicians gush about how wonderful a democracy we have, while the very rights of the people themselves are being taken away.  And the people don't even realize it.
:(  

[Juby (Tercios)]

Bah, whatever.  Communism can't work anyway...

That's a little rude, brush off my very dearly hold ideology without backing it up.

[Larrusus Deathspear]

Bah, whatever.  Communism can't work anyway...

I disagree, In "the art of war" by Sun Tzu, they mentioned an ancient province that was literally a Utopia, everything was divided equally, no-one ever went hungry, they were protected by their neighbors and had no need for arms. This village and all of its customs and laws were recorded by one of the emperors advisors, and while it is argued whether or not it is true. Even if the advisor did make it up, it had very in-depth information about how a perfect-country/province would function. So long before Marx, people believed that society could exist without money, and unequal division of wealth. I personally believe that a true socialist state would work but you would need:
1. A small country
2. A strong leader(s) to set it up until it was functioning
3. A society with whom peace is a core value (it wouldn't work for the Mongols, Vikings, and other society who gain food and goods through raids and warfare)
4. Probably a lower level of technology, since this country would have to be self-supporting, and becuase you would not have the resources to supply very citizen with a car, computer, house, radio, powertools, farming equitment. I think that going back to middle ages technology like the amish did would make the runnung of the country easier.

Odd how on a wargames messageboards we are talking about how to create a Utopia....