Rats vs. Stoats

[Holby]

 Orcrist, you're taking numbers specifically and making crazy set values, which are more than likely incorrect, but you do so often.
Let's just take you and these numbers, I know for a fact you never had anything close in ROME until weeks in.
From everything that has been said, I believe rats are better. But they are massed more than stoats, as a rule, so may not be as effective. Pretty much, because the game is supposed to be fair, the troops are even. :P

[Veranor]

 I was once part of these discussions. Except I think the problem is we're only looking at it from the offensive side.

Rats may be superior on the offense, but not the defense and vice versa for stoats.

Anyways, I'll add one little gem that might be useful to some people who haven't picked apart the code:

Stoat losses mod(attacker) = 0.0688
Stoat losses mod(defender) = 0.0445


rat losses mod(attacker) = 0.1155
stoat losses mod(defender) = 0.0705


// Troop Production Multipliers
Rat = 1.2;      
Weasel = 0.6;
Stoat  = 0.3;
Skiff = 0.2;


(btw all of you numbers peoples should download BAXX code... tis spiffy for some of the quick values you need)

Anyways you can clearly see that while you lose more rats attacking (about 2x), you make 4x more.

You also have to factor in that (attack losses/defender losses) is greater for rats.

Anyways, that's all I have to add here for now.

[Juska]

 Where do you download the code?

[sonnenburg]

 QUOTE
Sheba, rats train 4 time faster than stoats, therefore you would have 4000 rats when the guy with stoats would have 1000 so the net ='s each others
-juska

yes but who said i was lalking about training them that is almost pointless as you can just buy them at a much quiker rate and dont have to worry dividing your land to get barracks as that really messes up your economy when you can build all huts and get cash and max out your mercenaries
so i can buy currently 13mil rats= 13mil networth as to stoats i can buy 8mil which= 32mil networth
that was the point i was getting at

[Dead Man walking]

this all sounds like rock paper scissors, he couldn't be dumb enough to pick rock, but he thinks I'm dumb, so I'll pick scissors, or he thinks I'm dumb enough to think he's dumb enough to pick rock so he's gonna pick scissors and so I'm gonna pick rock and this goes around forever.

I laughed my head off when I read this.  I think you desribed the situation very well, Juby!

:lol:  

[Juska]

 Ok, understand your point sheba.  

[Kamino Kadens]

 i think rats are better then stoats because there cheaper and easy to get alot of to break somebody ::agrees::  
:snicker:


stoats my be good at alot of stuff but they coast alot and people usualy buy alot of them so itss hard to break somebody ::disagrees::  :angry:  

[calria]

 Yeah, but think about this, babe:

Someone with a mil stoats can easily crunch up a rat-masser's land, and then with the land and cash generated from a successful land grab, easily build up a bunch of towers and buy some ratsies to defend himself with.

[~>John<~]

 K, Juska, from what I understand, you addd barracks after markets and foragers but then dont count the troops you get from barracks in upkeep. So you'd actually need more markets and foragers because the barracks would produce new things that need upkeep so youd be negative.

You also showed stoats as eating more food, but with less......it = less

[Juska]

 Ya upkeep isn't included, and I don't get your staots food thing the values are right. Calria the rat masser can take his own land back and staots cost the same in cash upkeep so that doesn't work out either. it take less rats to break a tower than staots.

[calria]

 I think that you're wrong, Juska... using the facts from the game help files:

Rats: attack: 2, defense: 1
Stoats: attack:5, defense: 3
Guards are worth 500 defense points.
You must have a 5% advantage to break.

Let us assume that Player A has:
10,000 acres, 1,000 of which are guards.
1,000,000 rats
500,000 weasels
500,000 stoats
500,000 skiffs
100% health

And Player B has:
10,000 acres, 1,000 of which are guards.
500,000 rats
500,000 weasels
1,000,000 stoats
500,000 skiffs
100% health

When player A attacks player B with a guerilla strike, the math would be something like this:
2,000,000 attack points for player A
500,000 (rats) + 500,000 (towers) defense points for player B
Player B successfully defends.

When player B attacks player A with a frontal assault, the math is like this:
5,000,000 attack points for player B
3,000,000 (stoats) plus 500,000 (guards)= 3,500,000 defense points for player A
Player B breaks successfully.

Their individual financial outputs for their troops are:
Player A:
rats: $500,000,000
weasels: $500,000,000
stoats: $1,000,000,000
skiffies: $600,000,000
total= $2,600,000,000

Player B:
rats: $250,000,000
weasels: $500,000,000
stoats: $2,000,000,000
skiffies: $600,000,000
= $3,350,000,000

[caedo caelestis]

 None of this information is relevant since Era 2.

[calria]

 What do you mean, it's not relevant? The help files definately look like they've been updated since BAXX came out and everything... And if the info in them isn't correct, I may be forced to beat Retto with the rather large stick for beating naughty otters...

[caedo caelestis]

 Nothing wrong with the information here. It's just irrelevant.

[Holby]

When player A attacks player B with a guerilla strike, the math would be something like this:
2,000,000 attack points for player A
500,000 (rats) + 500,000 (towers) defense points for player B
Player B successfully defends.

When player B attacks player A with a frontal assault, the math is like this:
5,000,000 attack points for player B
3,000,000 (stoats) plus 500,000 (guards)= 3,500,000 defense points for player A
Player B breaks successfully.

500k + 500k = 1 million. A breaks easily.

When player B attacks player A with a frontal assault, the math is like this:
5,000,000 attack points for player B
3,000,000 (stoats) plus 500,000 (guards)= 3,500,000 defense points for player A
Player B breaks successfully.

You mixed up player B's stoats with player A's. Player A has 500k stoats, therefore 1.5 mil plus 500k. B breaks EASIER than previously.
However, You've given each of these players one million of their troop type. We know stoats are more powerful, but they are not better. You can get 1 mil rats much easier and faster than stoats.
Your argument is not valid.