Land Dumping in Turbo

[Retto]

 Many of you know that, on turbo recently, a small band of people have come together, with the goal of elimiating the majority of the land from the game. They have attacked those with land, and those without, and then dumped that land into oblivion.

I can understand dumping when you have too much land, when you're trying to improve your leader/land ratio, and I can even somewhat understanding stealing and dumping all of someone's land once or twice. I CANNOT understand this fixation with sucking the life and fun out of the game. For, indeed, the game is not fun when there is no land. And the game is not lively when everyone, from rank 1 to rank 100, is struggling to get by.

Therefore, I have instituted a top level. Each week, a counter will be initialized with it's value at 10% of the land currently in the game (The Emperor does not count). Every acre that is dumped during the week will be subtracted from that value. No more than that value will be dumped in the entire week.

Currently, that value is at 36,435.

I hope you will all strive towards the much more interesting, much more fun objective brought forth by Peace Alliance, which you voted into being a week ago.

[wolf bite]

 I disagree, there is a logical reason to dump land. From a strategy point of view, if a player has raised to the top in land mass, then had a few days to leader loot, that player will have the game for the rest of the Month.

Here is why.  Player ?Alpha? has 100,000 land.  Alpha is a Stoat race and has his land divided in 40% towers and 60% Huts.  He uses his magic Stoat Academy to raise his Leaders to 175 times his huts, thus 10,500,000 leaders and a DP of 20,000,000.  He then leader loots and in just 3 days has about 65 billion cash.

In order to take down that player, player ?Bata? has to mass large armies and will spend all their money and turns to buy or make an army (lets say 4,000,000 stoats) that can take Alpha.  Bata, at 10,000 acres, takes 21 attacks at Alpha and gets 60,000 acres from Alpha.  Bata now has 70,000 acres, but because of the penalties of attacking a higher opponent has little money or defenses in any other army then what he/she used to take Alpha. Alpha has 40,000 acres, but can buy from his/her mercs up to 25,600,000 rats.

Assuming Bata built half towers, his/her DP will be 17,500,000 plus the armies he/ she has, usually stoats, thus no rats.  Alpha buys 9,000,000 rats at a cost of under 4 billion and takes Bata with 21 attacks down to 38,000 land. Alpha now has 82,000 and still has 61 billion in cash.  Alpha uses Stoat Academy to raise his leaders to protect his money from leader steal.  Bata has no money and can not return effective fire, thus a few hours later Bata is beaten down to where he/she started and Alpha has returned to power.  Thus there is no way to take down a player that has land and unbelievable cash.

On the other hand, if Bata takes Alpha down to 40,000 acres, and there is no land for Alpha to recover, Alpha is forced to pay for and feed his/her armies with the cash on hand. Alpha tries to recover but is finding money going fast.  Alpha will look for land, but is venerable to attacks from those around him/her because he/she can not keep a large army without losing a lot of money. Thereby allowing others to take the ranks and a new emperor to emerge.

The only way to fight against the ?Stoat Land Leader Loot Strategy? that many are using in the game now is to take their ability from quickly regaining their land. Stopping the ability of others to fight them will insure that the first person to have land and money will win. The reason the game got boring was that the players had not found how to fight against the stratagy that was being used. Now they have found a way, and you are taking that away from them.

Even if the idea is to take down the gigantic emperor, the idea is not to stand by and let someone else do so.  Thus, there is no reason to assist another player or help them do so.




Wolf Bite

[The Mercenary]

In this case, I am the main offender I guess with my 365k acres, actually probably about 400k now gone.

I agree with Wolf completely, it is a strategy, and one that works.

My strategy was to starve the game for land, starve Peace Alliance for land, and then allow my takeover.

It worked.

[Retto]

 The fact is that your strategy has been one which elimitates all the other strategies in the game except that and HPR.

How, possibly, could one gain huge armies, or even an empire, if someone is always there taking their land and dumping it down the drain?

Indeed, this strategy limits the game to such an extent that, if I allowed it to go on, there would be just three types of warlords in the top ten: Food-based NW, Leader-based NW, and Constantly Assaulted.

Because you haven't been taking them down to reasonable levels, have you? Peace alliance is just under 3,000 acres. Imagine this situation:

Player Alpha has a great army. With 60,000 acres, he has 10,000,000 rats, and enough stoats so that Joe Average player can't hit him. Along comes player Bata. Bata's got tons of leaders, but no real networth. Player Bata does not get to the top - Player Bata exists only to PREVENT OTHERS from doing so. Player Bata attacks, and drains all of Alpha's land.

Alpha's account is in ruins - he's left with 10,000 acres, maybe, and he's got debt so huge you can't see around. Regularly, he would have prospects of gaining back the land. But...no, not this time, because everyone around him has 10-25k acres. He can't afford to drain the land and get around their wrath. What can Alpha do? He can retaliate against Bata - they've only got 4,000 acres, so that won't help. He can attack those around him, but then he'll have lots of land, or someone else will have lots of land, and guess who's back, dumping it?

Alpha's got two choices. He can relentlessly attack the lower people, those who are just starting, and got all their land from scouting. It means lots of lost health, and his powerful armies aren't so useful, but it's land. But he can't grow too big, or the cycle starts again.

So Alpha decides, "I give up. How can I utilize most of this game, if someone with tons of leaders is just going to come along and whomp me to pieces, when I can't even get things back? Maybe I'll restart."

Can you blame him? Can you imagine a separate realistic ending? I cannot. In truth, your strategy is perpetuating an attack upon the whole game. In truth, your strategy is deteriorating the enjoyment of it. Those are things I will not have. There have been emperors in the past. There have been great armies. That is a goal - you get to the top, and maybe stay there for a while, but then you're done. You've beat it. If your goal is the constant degredation of others? It never stops. It does not end. There is no joy for others.

[wolf bite]

 So, what you are saying is that the first Stoat race to get a land lead and hold it for 3 days has won and the only defense against that strategy is gone?  

There are 2 evils, players spending 4 days to prepare and attack that will surly fail and put him back insuring the emperor never falls, and chocking the land from all players with only a hope of removing an emperor.  Both do not give much hope to be in first place for any player.  Without any hope of winning, all players have no reason to play.

Maybe better to fix the problem of ungodly wealth?  Leader loot now reduces by a light percent at certain net worths.  Why not have it also reduce on a scale based on land?  

For example: After 100 times the money or 20 times the food of the players land, leader loot is reduced by 5%, and 5% of that for every 20% more goods the person has.

So lets say the player with 100,000 in land is making $200,000 per 2 turns,

At 10,000,000 he is making 190,000

12,000,000   180,500

14,400,000   171,475

17,280,000   162,901

20,736,000   154,756

24,883,200   147,018

29,859,840   139,667

35,831,808   132,684

42,998,169   126,049

And so on?.

I am just saying that we should fix the problem then the only solution that players have now of deleting land will not be used.

Last turbo when Peace used this strategy, it to 6 players 3 weeks to take the lead from him he got in the first 4 days.


Wolf Bite

[Retto]

 You say that there is no hope of getting to emperor - but is there? Even in futilly trying to overthrow someone, there is more excitement than trying to merely survive.

You can still dump excess land. All I have done is prevented a large trend of doing so. A trend so large that it has been reaching to the evil which is hardest for regular players to remedy of themselves.

I admit that I don't like one person holding the emperorship for too long - we've put in game code against that, too. Logical reason or no, the dumping land has come to an excess, and though I could understand loosening the percent to 15% or 20%, I would not consider undoing it.

the 6 players in 3 weeks is a bit of an exaggeration - you were not all working together the entire time.

[wolf bite]

 It was well over 2 weeks that we all worked togather to take peace, but then his only two friends where gone on vacation most of the time. This game he has 4 other players (all stoats) that he has showed how to use this "Stoat Land Leader Loot Stratagy" that I must say, I unfortunalty showed him. I don't think a year of trying would take down someone with 65 billion and 4 gaurds around him to make sure no one gains the land or money to attack effectivly.

I would not be suprised, if after the next reset, there are nothing but Stoats racing to be the first to hold land for 3 days.



Wolf Bite

[Peace Alliance]

 *Considers all the points* ....

One point was missed... Maybe i deserved to be the emporor? Its kind of funny that this is the 3rd time i've done it... Maybe its because i'm a talented player?

Sure it might be hard to take me out, but thats because I'm good at what i do. And I've seen other players use my stratagy, and i didn't sit there hopelessly and give up. I took em out!

Dumping the land has definitly ruined the game. AND, i would like to point our that it did NOT take me from my position as the highest warlord (excludint emporor). In fact, i would still be in 2nd if it weren't for people stealing all my money. But now i sit here with no money and now land... what can i do? i have no more options? you guys have riuned it for everyone, nobody has land and nobody can attack the emporor.

BESIDES, Wolf, you're first situation showed how it is impossible to take out Beta without dumping the land. But retto never said you cannot dump the land. you can still dump 10% of the games land in a week, meaning if you plan it right you can dump enough to win.

[Cindarin]

 Ollie... I see you hate land dumpers... so....
See all this land I just took from the top 10?
DUMP TIME~! -.-

[Peace Alliance]

 Hey thanks for usin my real name on the forums buddy. That goes a long way for my personal security!

And WHAT an arguement you presented there too!

It seems you're just another person who is just out to piss off the whole game. Mercinary (AKA the ghana guy) even told me when the game started he was going to enjoy making the game suck for the rest of us. Is that how you guys get you're kicks? By ruining games for everyone else? how does that make you any better then the hackers?

[alacazar]

 ok  Im in agreement with rettro here.   This is the reason:

About a week ago a player who will remain namless Attacked several or the players in the top ten avoiding I think the 3 or 4 most powerful.  we were the ones with 15-30,000 land that got hit.  Between the 4 of us we lost 31,000 land.  Not a one was able to get his land back because the attacked dumped all but about 2,000 of his take when he was done.  

This was not done in retaliation to anything.  The day we were all attacked was the first any of us had heard of this paticular empire.  In my case it was a preemptive stike because i hadent even conciderd attacking him (not enough land to bother) yet he dumped all our land for no real reason that I can see

WE havnet recoverd yet because at this point almost all the land has  been dumped from the top ten and there is almost no where to turn without attacking defencless people or friends.  

So i am against rampant land dumping, There are other ways to get into first place,  and take down the emporer.  We will just have to get more creative and find them

alacazar

[wolf bite]

 I agree that there has been times that land dumping has been mis-used. I think it was 2 turbos ago that Ereptor (although he is a great payer in other ways) started the land dumping in a useles manor.  There was good fighting enemies in the top ranks, however he would pick one person and gain, then dump that land. He did this only to make himselve not a target. This was useless because the person attacked would have other enemies around him to regain the land from.  Think of this opossed to the stratagy of attacking an empror with a high land lead that when attacked, still has such a high net worth, that they can't attack anyone without a penelty.

Understanding that there will be a limmit on dumping, is the way it is now set up fair?  Player Alpha dumps a bunch of land for the wrong reasons, player Bata wants to dump a little but can not because the game limmit has been met by Alpha.  Player Bata has a real need to dump to fix his ratio but for no fault of his own, can't.  Maybe, if possable, it should be that a player can not dump more then 10% of the most land he has had in the last 24 hours?

And, uh, Peace, you are not the only one playing the game.  Just because this reverse stratagy to the one you are useing puts you with nothing to do in the game right now, does not make it bad or unfair to the other 100 people in the game.  Many of them can just as much say that your massive attacks on them by you and your friends have left their hordes in distruction.  There is no rule that everything must be wonderful for Peace and that others don't matter.  Every player should have ups and downs.  For every time someone goes up, another goes down. The reason all the other players in the game come back each day to take their turns is that they may have an "up" day.  

I still like to think that for every stratagy in the game, there should be a downfall.  The best one against the Stoat Land Leader Loot is gone, there are a few other much harder ways to fight that stratagy.  If anyone is interested, you may PM me, and depending on who you are, I may send you a few ideas.



Wolf Bite

[Cindarin]

 Wow. Is is SOoooooo much fun dumping land. Especially now that you freak completely everytime someone drops it. You see there is a difference between the people like you and the people like me who play this game. The people like you think that you can claim 1st by killing everyone and taking all thier land without ever getting hit at all. and when you do get hit you whine and complain. Then theres the people like me who make the people like you whine and complain by attacking you, dropping land... oh and did i mention HAVING FUN!?

[Holby]

 Thanks to this "wonderful"  new point to the game, I can't play my strat successfully.
I play leaders. That means I play Stoat, right? No. Wolf has cheaper mercs and gains more loyalty. Because of this, to max my leaders, I have to drop land. And guess what?
I can't drop all the land I need to. And guess what? All my money will be stolen by squirrel or Peace because my ratio isn't good enough. ALL BECAUSE OF THE LAND DROPPING RULE!
Trying to fix one point of the game hurts another.

~Manfred von Richtofen

[Peace Alliance]

Wow. Is is SOoooooo much fun dumping land. Especially now that you freak completely everytime someone drops it. You see there is a difference between the people like you and the people like me who play this game. The people like you think that you can claim 1st by killing everyone and taking all thier land without ever getting hit at all. and when you do get hit you whine and complain. Then theres the people like me who make the people like you whine and complain by attacking you, dropping land... oh and did i mention HAVING FUN!?

You... REALLY bug me sometimes Cindarin. But I will try and keep a level head here.

While the rest of the people posted here with valid posts you just posted to make me souund bad, ONCE AGAIN. I do not complain when I'm attacked. In fact, I understand better then you do that its part of the game. But you were right when you say there is a difference between you and I. Its called experience and talent. You may have started before me but you have not played as much and you are not as strategic. You are a good attacker, like most people are once i teach them a simple rat massing stratagy. BUT, like most people like you, you cannot hold on to you're land. When you get attacked it becomes a normal event. You adjust for it, you prepare for it. But when i'm done for the night I set up defenses, so that nobody can break me. Because my stratagy involves holding on to the land i have... Thats how I manage to stay in the top for longer and not drop down all the time. When somebody breaks me it has a worse effect then when they break you.

Wolf, I'm not the only one who wants to play for the emporor. Maybe you missed it... Or maybe you were drunk... But there was a bif vote on it. And a overwhelming amount voted yes. Meaning an overwhelming amount want to play the emporor game :P