Seriously?

[Wolf Snare]

So this punk unprovokedly makes a mock clan of our teaching clan, murders away a bunch of networth without reason, and you're going to let him live at one acre? This code is ridiculous, I even killed him fair and square for being a twat.

Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6) has been destroyed!

Yet "kills are not currently allowed?"

Seriously? I guess I'll revolt and whoop him old school until this is corrected.

Before anyone says kills are bad, this was the unprovoked start of it.

Date/Time   Attacker   Defender   Outcome
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:29 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:28 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:28 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:27 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:27 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:26 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:25 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:24 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:24 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:23 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:22 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:22 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:21 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:21 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:03:18 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 08:50:54 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 08:50:54 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 08:50:46 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 21:49:28 -0700   Standard (#7)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Guerilla Strike
Defense Held
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 21:03:20 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:41:42 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:41:22 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:41:22 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:41:20 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:41:15 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:39:59 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:39:58 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:39:57 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:39:57 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:39:55 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:39:55 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:39:52 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:14:11 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:01:18 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Poison
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:01:17 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Poison
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:01:11 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Poison
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:28:45 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:11:17 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:11:16 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:11:16 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:11:15 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:11:15 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:11:14 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:11:13 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:11:10 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan: XIV   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:43:38 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:43:38 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:43:37 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:43:35 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:43:14 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:43:12 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:42:55 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Sabotage
ShieldedSuccess
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:42:53 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Sabotage
ShieldedSuccess
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:42:21 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:42:16 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Steal
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:45 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:44 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:44 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:43 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:42 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:42 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:41 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:40 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:39 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:39 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:39 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:38 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:37 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:36 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:36 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:36 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:35 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:34 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:33 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:33 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:32 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:41:29 -0700   Fland Arm (Lee Frand) (#6)
Clan:   Krowdon (#13)
Clan: VIX   Mission: Murder
Success

[windhound]

Yeah, give and take. 
Sevz was killing randoms out of boredom last round so I removed kills this round. 
Did do it a little sloppily and for that I apologize, you shouldn't have gotten the 'destroyed' message. 

He's a wolf, you just nuked his leaders, I think he'll get the idea. 

[Wolf Snare]

Can we bring back kills with stds under 500 acres? Makes it much harder to kill but let's you teach a lesson to someone only focusing on net destruction.

[windhound]

Newbies could still be easily killed even with with Standards under 500. 
I'm not sure how to balance that out, except making killing legit newbies an insta-ban offense.   

It's happened before, players get bored and start picking off newbies.  Hadn't happened in a while til Sevz did it last round tho. 

[Drakus]

Whoops, my bad. Didn't realize it was a teaching clan. I'll own up to my mistake.

On the other hand, sitting at one land is morbidly hilarious. I totally deserved it

Maybe only activate kills in the last 30 days of the run?

Also wolf snare, don't waste resources revolting, I'll try not to do it again

[Wolf Snare]

Ban unprovoked killing, but for the sake of the game take that line of code out please windy.

[windhound]

Yeah..  but that puts me and/or Shadow in the position of arbitrator. 
I've been coding fuzzy decisions out for years 'cause no matter the outcome an admin always seems to get called a cheat/awful/biased/etc.

50 murders on it's face is worthy of a kill, 20 maaybe, how about 5? 
How about 22 captures in a row, 'cause I 'bout killed someone for that last round, but apparently those are considered just normal attacks now. 

Input from others is welcome. 
RWL has always been the soft, squishy promi so banning kills is not out of character (and has been done in the past). 
It sucks to restart from scratch, and while Drakus probably wouldn't have quit over this another player might..  we don't exactly have extra players. 

And it seems like this worked out alright in the end, sorta.. 
/shrug.

[Shadow]

If we all got along and admins could make decisions without accusations of bias then making a rule would make sense. Since that has never even been close to the case, we have to code things out, which often has side effects. If everyone played nice this wouldn't be necessary. Shame that it's really only one person ruining stuff, but there you go.

[Wolf Snare]

Honestly, I still think this is ridiculous. Kills are a necessary part of the game in extreme cases. There's only so much you can do to a destructive player who doesn't create net, esp when it's so easy to shield for the entire set / store everything on the market daily. Do I really have to go to the dark side and start ruining people daily to prove this? RWL: Happy Pony Raisers is back in full force. Let's just store [poop] on the market for three months and destroy everyone else's stuff without risking losing aaanything.

Sevz even apologized and promised not to kill any newbs after that incident, so let's not pretend that's even a relevant excuse to break the game. I wasn't suggesting you admins pick and choose what is deemed a justified kill, I was saying to ban people who perform random kills on new players.

[Sevz]

Bring back kills.
It defeats the purpose of the game if you can't kill an enemy. Promise to only kill in war

[Shadow]

I wasn't suggesting you admins admins pick and choose what is deemed a justified kill

I was saying to ban people who perform random kills on new players.

but the second thing you said is literally an example of the first thing you said =/

That, and the way it's set up now, no kill means the newbie doesn't leave and the vet doesn't get banned, whereas under your system suggested suddenly we are -2 players instead. I'd rather keep both, tbh.

[windhound]

Kills are a necessary part of the game in extreme cases.

I actually do agree.
The problem is that the game has shifted to where extreme measures are the new normal. 
Someone has land?  Take as much as possible.
Someone has cash?  Steal it.
An Indy has troops?  Murder them.
A Leader player has resources?  Sack them. 
A Leader player has leaders?  Capture them.
This is regardless of any prior interaction, and it's a very small step to -
Someone mildly irks you?  Kill them.

Again, a veteran player can have everything back the way it was in short order.  A newer player, or a returning oldbie, just sees all that they've worked on for weeks gone in the blink of an eye.  And while some people like games like that the overwhelming majority do not.

For those pests that have nothing and destroy for fun I'm not sure how kills do anything.  It sets them back for a run, maybe two, before they can start being a pest again, and it cost you most of a run to do the kill.
I don't know the answer to pests being pests, but I'm not sure kills are.

Also I missed Sevz' first apology.
And it is relevant, 'cause those two kills reminded me why I stopped playing, so I did.  I didn't play for 2/3rds of last round, only rejoined near the end 'cause Volky asked nicely. 
The only reason I'm currently playing is I saw a few new players and wanted to be able to send them aid and see if they wanted help, and I'd rather do that with a playing account.

[Drakus]

You could give newbies (or every single player) one-time protection associated with their forum account. If they get killed for the first time on their account, bounce them back to 500 land and let them keep their resources (up to whatever will be lost due to attacks/desertions). Throw something in about a guardian angel or something to make it very clear that this was a one-time protection. This seems like a fair compromise, and a warlord would either have to be quite bored or quite annoyed to go for a kill twice on the same player.

From what I've seen, there's a pretty strong consensus on who is a newb and who is not. And I have to admit I did get off quite easy from sitting at 1 land and being able to keep everything but my leaders, such that with the current no-kill measures, it's simply not possible to retaliate effectively against net destroyers. This to me seems unfair to people on the receiving end of my nonsense.

I plan to use my still being alive to make amends, so don't worry.

[windhound]

Eh, fine.  Could make a 'killable' flag.
A silent counter that allows you 30 'special' attacks each round.  Murder, Poison, Capture, Sack - each 'bad' special attack counts against it.
Once you use up your allotment for the round you can be killed.
Killing another player instantly subtracts 30, removing the protection.

Those who play nice cannot be killed, those who play dirty can be.

[Shadow]

That's reasonable. With the caveat that if someone finds some way around it and crows about it not being against the rules while abusing the spirit of what is intended here we bring no kills back immediately.