Next Round

[windhound]

So.. we're done with the 499 exploit.
Proposed changes for next round: 
No aid to players with less than 5000 acres if they have greater than 50 mil net.
Dropping land currently has a floor of 250 acres, that's being raised +1000 every 10 mil net.  So if you have 500 mil networth the lowest land you can drop to is 50k. 
Remove Standards under 500.
No Kills. 
I reserve the right to make mid-round changes if the above isn't enough of a deterrent.  tbh I probably should have fixed it this round. 

For players who can actually play reasonably well it's embarrassing that you have to exploit loopholes. 
And having an invulnerable storehouse is not in the spirit of the game, you know you're being asshats.

Also tempted to add a 3 day delay to any market price changes, or spike the market fee for changing price. 
The market is not designed to be a storehouse, that's lame. 

Anyways.
Do you guys want a round theme for the next round?
I'm open to suggestions.

[Sevz]

Woah.
I thought it was funny and semi harmless. Why not make kills possible? We can just restart, why so against us having fun? You want us to have no storage. No safety with our networth and not allowed to kill each other if we're in enemy clans?
This round is rubbish. There is a team that purposely made it a terrible round. Spreading land to slow down the action. Nobody runs when the land is spread to ensure noone has more than 100k. Look right now they done it on purpose again and they're intentionally maxing their own leaderers after every run. I mean they haven't even tried hitting the emperor and they've made sure we can't break it either.
Who are you mad at? This was a pointless round with an emperor way too heavy on leaders. Why even give an emperor 2 billion leaders on only 250k land? I resent you for that. Could have given us a heads up that breaking a lizard with leaders was impossible because you gave it 20MILLION acres worth of leaders. wat?
I've been on the road 3weeks I don't really care but you seem to be blaming one side in favor of another. Your bias is intense. Both sides have been filling the market because that's how you made it. We can't remove goods we have to sell them at merc prices. So we can't even store troops until its time to break.
This round is designed for a Rat to sack aid and store production at max prices. Nothing an opposition can do to stop them storing at max prices and maxing their own team. I don't blame them for the way they played its smart but it stinks that they ignored the emperor just so they could win like it was a normal round.
Don't blame the players blame the coding changes.
Last round we didn't have a market and this round it became a storehouse because you made it so storage prices can be very high.
If you made max prices lower it would have prevented this.
I say just delete the emperor cos coding literally made my round a complete waste of time. If shoot wasn't on 499acres we wouldn't have even been able to suicide the emperor and breaking with troops would have done nothing special. You sir are a bad person.

Next round them should be race to badgers gold

[windhound]

Yeah.  Absolutely hilarious. 
Carried By Sacks (#7)
Turns (?)   426 (max 550)
Turns Stored (?)   0 (max 150)
Rank (?)   #28
Workers (?)   1,444,460
Acres (?)   499
Cash (?)   $2,128,028,295,438
Food (?)   75,609,471,844
Loyalty (?)   124,966,342
Networth (?)   $2,411,186,741
      
Location (?)   Mossflower
Race (?)   Fox
Health (?)   100%
Tax Rate (?)   5%
Rats (?)   54,734,062
Weasels (?)   28,695,894
Stoats (?)   50,714
Skiffs (?)   3,411,687
Leaders (?)   2,392,340

Fresh today, got legit, 'cause I got sacked down to 2,500 acres and had a 5000 leader ratio
2.4 billion untouchable networth.  Yep, that's pretty funny alright.  Not an exploit or anything, just pure hilarity. 

Kills are lame and cause people to not want to play. 
You may enjoy seeing weeks worth of effort vanish 'cause someone is trolling, most don't. 
It also lets me remove standards-under-500.

No, I don't want any market storage.  Hording rounds are boring, and having untouchable net is lame.
If both teams are abusing the market for storage I'm hardly taking a side by nerfing it right?  Or is everything a targeted attack? 
Making the set market price be base-Mercs is acceptable to me.
My next idea is market upkeep charges, it's already coded just not in use. 

With the 499 thing I'm not blaming or taking a side. 
I am closing a loophole, a fairly clever one I'll grant you. 
Sacks is essentially invulnerable when he's not running, not because he's hard to break but because he found a set of circumstances that grants invulnerability. 
Meanwhile your team is sacking the snot out of other players.
That is not okay. 

I'm actually fine with disabling land dropping, I just thought the above solution was more clever. 
Land dropped to the landfarm is extremely easy to recover, I'm not sure I'd blame that for the land spread.  It's more likely because nearly everyone is unclanned (because people are being stupid-vicious lately) and people get maxed. 

The emps are always heavy on leaders, because they don't run they can't replenish and are exceptionally vulnerable to suicides. 
This round especially so because you had like two months to break it and an emp weak on leaders will just be murdered. 
Which is, again, lame (I'm seeing a pattern..)

The emp wasn't even that hard to break.  Lask could have been broken by a team in a couple weeks, 2.5 bil rats probably would have been plenty. 
I never thought Lask would remain unbroken 5 days before reset, but I'm not deleting him because of your team's ineptitude. 
Sacks could have easily food massed enough net to hit the emp w/o the 499 exploit.  If people sacked him you'd have only yourself to blame.   
Team Volky made a half-hearted attempt and you stopped them. 

/shrug. 

[Shadow]

So.. we're done with the 499 exploit.
Proposed changes for next round: 
No aid to players with less than 5000 acres if they have greater than 50 mil net.
Dropping land currently has a floor of 250 acres, that's being raised +1000 every 10 mil net.  So if you have 500 mil networth the lowest land you can drop to is 50k. 
Remove Standards under 500.
No Kills. 
I reserve the right to make mid-round changes if the above isn't enough of a deterrent.  tbh I probably should have fixed it this round. 

For players who can actually play reasonably well it's embarrassing that you have to exploit loopholes. 
And having an invulnerable storehouse is not in the spirit of the game, you know you're being asshats.

Also tempted to add a 3 day delay to any market price changes, or spike the market fee for changing price. 
The market is not designed to be a storehouse, that's lame. 

Anyways.
Do you guys want a round theme for the next round?
I'm open to suggestions.

This all sounds reasonable to me. I don't plan on playing, so I can keep an eye on things on the admin side if you want to.

It's always been strange to me that people insist on exploiting code bugs in this game and playing by the letter of the code instead of the spirit of the game. Who are you trying to impress at this point?

[Sharptooh]

I'm not being dragged into another pointless arguement, I just wanted to chip in to say I don't think the market should be in any future rounds.

It's always used as a storehouse, regardless of whatever changes are made. I can think of ways to try and mitigate this, but there's probably always going to be some way to abuse it (especially with such a small playerbase).

[Shadow]

I don't disagree. It's a shame that it would be necessary to remove it.

[Sharptooh]

It's a shame, but in every round I recollect playing recently, it's been abused.

As for the other changes, they sound good to me. Removing kills does seem a bit ... Weird, but considering the small playerbase and somewhat toxic atmosphere; I don't think it's a bad idea really.

[windhound]

I think forcing the sales price to be at or slightly below mercs would negate a lot of market storage. 
Worst case, charging full upkeep completely solves market storage -- mostly 'cause noone would use it except for food. 
And I've had an idea to add spoilage for a while, something like .01% of marketed food disappears each turn cycle. 

Removing kills is mostly due to Sevz early this round, he was bored so he killed a couple random players. 
Yes, you can respawn, and it was early round so they didn't lose much.  It's still a lance move and will drive players away,  we're small enough as is. 

About all the game changes lately have been lance mitigation, it would be simpler to just ban the couple culprits. 

[Shadow]

Charging upkeep is a good idea, as is spoilage

both worth trying before scrapping it

[Death]

Don't you think all these ideas might kind of be like, overkill? Remove the STD under X requirement and kick up PM pull penalties if people use it to store. Also add a land dropping spell.

[Shadow]

Pull penalties don't do anything, people just team up and buy each other out, recycling cash back and forth until they've got it all off. Even if you make it impossible to pull it's still a storehouse. I think the only thing that could rescue the public market is a big playerbase, and you can't really code those. We did try, though. The bots were functional but not very adaptable.

[windhound]

Overkill is better than underkill, if you want somthin' dead you kill it thoroughly. 
tbh the aid limitation alone would kill 499, but the other stuff addresses other lesser problems without affecting normal gameplay. 

I've thought about rewriting the bots, they were originally designed for RWL3 and so would need to be gone over. 
I _think_ their primary functions are fine, just their run order needs to be completely rewritten. 
A leader strat is so dead simple it shouldn't take too long, 'could release them in pairs with a leader bot feeding an indy bot..

[austfit]

I like the idea of bots.

[Drakus]

Why no kill?

[Gen. Volkov]

Because right now its standards only under 500 land, which makes kills harder. If you remove standards only under 500 land, kills get a lot easier.