move this thread not the other one

[Briar]

Take off the red glasses Ungatt

[Ungatt Trunn II]

Fine. Bolsheviks. Whatever.

[Briar]

What about Cuba

[Ungatt Trunn II]

They have some fine cigars.

[Briar]

Cigars stink.....though my husband disagrees.

[Krowdon]

Cigars stink.....though my husband disagrees.

I agree with you. Even when they're not lit they stink. I made my roommate hide hers where I couldnt smell it.

[Ungatt Trunn II]

And you have the nerve to call yourself Americans.

[Firetooth]

Firetooth, for someone that claims to support free speech, you seem comically giddy over the fact that this site doesn't have to abide by such tenants.

No? It's about what is appropriate. Governments have the right to protect you from imprisonment for airing your views, but private groups and businesses don't. It's like how people get kicked out of political parties for airing racist views. I don't think you actually understand how free speech works. I support the right of poisonous views to be aired, but will support anybody who makes sure you are shunned by society for airing such views. THAT is freedom of speech - you're free to say it, and other people are free to say you're an idiot for saying it. Freedom of speech, not freedom from consequence.

Actually,  "hate speech" is also covered by free speech,  under the first amendment in the United States. If you support outlawing that, it does make you an enemy of free speech!

The US is not the perfect model of democracy. Hate speech SHOULD be banned - hate speech is the incitement of violence. Are you saying it's fine to incite violence, but not to commit it? I don't understand.  You have a skewed perception of free speech, same as Ungatt.

You are fundamentally wrong in this regard. The moment we attempt to decide what is and what is not 'free' speech, it ceases to be free by very definition and instead becomes regulated. You list incitement to violence as being the definition of hate speech. Have I attempted to incite anyone here to violence?  There is a distinct difference between shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater, the origin of all modern restrictions to freedom of speech, which was historically done to prevent loss of life by panic and chaos, and speech that a group or individual may find or one day decide to be offensive. Similarly direct threats against a person's life or liberty are treated with suspicion, whereas petty insults and opposing political speech are not and should not be.

As for violence itself, you are attempting to stray further and further from the topic of conversation at hand; that of freedom of speech. A topic I urge you to reconsider your stance on.

I never accused you of hate speech, just speech in poor taste. Just like Ungatt, you are fallaciously misrepresenting what I have said.

As for hate speech, I don't believe in the freedom of offense, but when you get into the territory of calling minorities cockroaches and calling for pogroms, clearly a line has been crossed where the Government has to intervene before violence and civil unrest ensues. Literally anything that doesn't stir up violence should be permitted under free speech, and the only thing that isn't in Europe atm is Holocaust denial. I believe Holocaust denial probably should be legal, but considering the logical end-point of such arguments is often targeted hatred against the Jews, I 100% understand why it is illegal and why there is no real desire to legalize it.

Hate speech and violence are connected. Free speech are connected. Ergo, violence should be considered in any discussions of the extent of the freedom of speech.

[Krowdon]

Locked. Take it to UMD, guys.

[Ungatt Trunn II]

Get up horsey! This race ain't over yet.

Locked. Take it to UMD, guys.

Nyet. My topic.

[Krowdon]

Get up horsey! This race ain't over yet.

Locked. Take it to UMD, guys.

Nyet. My topic.

don't you sass me young man.

[Ungatt Trunn II]

Learn your place, doll.

[Krowdon]

Learn your place, doll.

Don't call me doll

[Ungatt Trunn II]

Dollface. A fistful of dolls. For a few dolls more. The good, the bad and the dolly.

[Krowdon]

Meet me in the dirt pit. We shall fight.