U.S.A.

[Ungatt Trunn II]

If you look at the middle east, you will see that "untrained civilians" can indeed cause quite a problem. Even more so when many of those "untrained civilians" are actually ex-military.

It would and has stopped tyrannical governments. It's the very origin of our nation, an entire revolutionary war.

If the 2nd amendment only applies to muskets, then the 1st must only apply to newspapers.

The 2nd amendment isn't about hunting. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

[stormsight]

"Only organized criminals would (theoretically) still have access to guns, who are not the kind of opportunity killers or w/e you would need to defend yourself from."

I'm not like jumping into this or anything bc honestly whatever right now. Just noting that the majority of the black and hispanic gangs in the US are, in fact, opportunity killers. Anyone who's ever read news out of a major US city knows this.

[Firetooth]

The difference is those middle eastern rebels have foreign support, and the countries are in no way geographically comparable to a landmass as vast as America. As you'll note, without direct military aid, even in smaller countries such as Syria those rebels struggle. The idea of a rebel force taking control of all America, or even large sections, is ludicrous...at best.

Times change, maybe the amendments should be amended. When your constitution was written, people were still homophobic, racist and sexist. Just because the document is influential doesn't mean it is flawless, and as times change, perhaps the document needs updating. Your country is in a completely different condition to back then. But hey, I think giving every citizen an automatic rifle will solve all your problems. If that's what it takes to stop Obama oppressing you.

"Only organized criminals would (theoretically) still have access to guns, who are not the kind of opportunity killers or w/e you would need to defend yourself from."

I'm not like jumping into this or anything bc honestly whatever right now. Just noting that the majority of the black and hispanic gangs in the US are, in fact, opportunity killers. Anyone who's ever read news out of a major US city knows this.

By opportunity killers, I mean the people who will break into your home and theoretically threaten you in that sense. I assume that is what you guys usually mean when you say "defend yourself," as in from people breaking into your house. Unless you suggest everybody walks armed incase they get offed in an alley?

[stormsight]

"By opportunity killers, I mean the people who will break into your home and theoretically threaten you in that sense."

Ah, I'd assumed you also meant drive-by shootings, armed muggings and rapes, etc. Violent offender would probably be a better term. My statement stills stands either way. A gang member is as likely to break into a random house and commit armed robbery as any other home.
Or attempt to rob a random person on the street, or, in the news recently, kill a random bystander.

[Camaclue]

...just
here, have some GIFtS

[Ungatt Trunn II]

Alright Firetooth. So do you think that the government, police and military should be allowed to have guns?

[Camaclue]

tell us

[Typhon]

I can tell you now, that the majority of Americans approximately I don't know a lot are against him at least 90%. Many people are coming out and saying they shouldn't have voted for him. When he ran for president he mad many speeches with an I quote " I will not oppress Americans liberties to own firearms." Now, he has tried to enforce gun banning laws. He has failed at first but popular belief is that he isn't done trying. He was dealing with the Jews big leader he smiles and acts all nice and friendly. One time he forgot to turn off his microphone, he whispered to a colleague unaware of the mic being on that he couldn't stand that man. He sends free money to tons of countries, some of which could use it, others who don't need it at all. If you lived here you would understand him better and you would probably not agree with him. Just wait if you here about civil war in America then you'll know something was going on. The guy openly dislikes America.

Shut up now. Your an idiot who has no idea whats actually going on. So just stop

[Camaclue]

I just tl;dr'd

[Typhon]

wat?

[Firetooth]

Alright Firetooth. So do you think that the government, police and military should be allowed to have guns?

The police, I'm divided on. The police wouldn't need them if people weren't allowed them, as here, but guns have been in circulation so long in America it would be difficult to take them away.

And as for the army, well yeah. A military with guns is pretty useless. The police and army are both trained to use weapons, and don't just keep them for gun forums and target ranges, though.

[Kilkenne]

guns have been in circulation so long in America it would be impossible to take them away.

ftfy

[Firetooth]

guns have been in circulation so long in America it would be impossible to take them away.

ftfy

Nothing is impossible. Well, loads of things are, but still. I think a defeatist attitude like that is pointless. I never said it would be easy to take guns away, but most things having (like a reasonably low level of gun crime) aren't easy. It would take a long time, but the levels of guns could certainly be significantly reduced, especially if the focus is only on assault weapons. Furthermore, isn't most of Obama's proposal focused on regulation? Checks would ensure it is more difficult for people to keep guns.

And before anybody brings up a prohibition argument (not aimed at Kilk), don't. Please. :P

[Firetooth]

Shouldn't this go UMD? That board is dieing, this one is thriving. Plus, serious debate is like a disease in the lands of spa.

[Ungatt Trunn II]

So basically you want to take away guns from the common folk (the ones the gov should fear and listen to) and ensure only a small elite group which already has too much power has them? It must be because the government is infallible.