The Christian corner

Gen. Volkov · May 15, 2013, 08:25:02 PM

Raggon... I'm not sure you even understood my post.

Camaclue · May 15, 2013, 08:52:04 PM

you tell him mister!

Raggon · May 16, 2013, 04:54:00 PM

Well then Volkov, enlighten me on the meaning of your post, because I do not know what you are trying to say.

Gen. Volkov · May 17, 2013, 07:04:25 AM

I am trying to say that Hell is not mentioned in the Bible, and the uses of the word Hades, Gehenna, Sheol, and Tartarus in the Bible do not mean "Hell", as in the place of fire and torment you go too when you die, as is classically thought of by Christians, even though they are commonly translated as such. That is not biblical at all, but rather an invention of the Catholic Church.

Genevieve · May 17, 2013, 07:18:36 AM

So what are the phrases "eternal punishment", "the second death - the lake of fire", and the thing about the evil being thrown into the fiery furnace that Raggon quoted in reference to if it is not Hell?

Camaclue · May 17, 2013, 07:32:26 AM

...hell?
*gets ravaged by thrown books*

Firetooth · May 17, 2013, 07:50:53 AM

Quote from: Genevieve on May 17, 2013, 07:18:36 AM
So what are the phrases "eternal punishment", "the second death - the lake of fire", and the thing about the evil being thrown into the fiery furnace that Raggon quoted in reference to if it is not Hell?

It's all interpretive. Getting thrown into a lake of fire doesn't mean eternal punishment, and "eternal punishment" can easily be interpreted as annihilation. With the whole "raising from the dead thing," the point is life and death now are only temporary, as we all rise for judgement or w/e, I don't exactly remember. That means if we die now, that is not proper punishment as it is not eternal. Hence, getting judged for being wicked results in death with no chance of a resurrection, hence "eternal punishment" is permanent death, instead of being resurrected and getting to live forever.

That is how I was taught to interpret those scriptures when I was young and still believed all this stuff. Just to cast some more light on the matter. Hades/Sheol are also not synonymous with Gehenna, though the church translates them to mean the same thing: hell. Hades/Sheol are not associated with a fiery death.

Basically, these passages are seen as metaphorical, and the "hell" interpretation was invented by the church to scare people into piety and donations.

Genevieve · May 17, 2013, 08:02:57 AM

But there are passages with fiery imagery associated with evil people after their death. It's a bit silly to say that Hell is not mentioned in the bible because that exact word nor an exact translation of what it currently means is not there. What we know as "Hell" - a fiery place where evil people go after they die as punishment, is definitely discussed in the bible.

Of course the passages passages are metaphorical, the whole thing is metaphorical.

Firetooth · May 17, 2013, 08:12:46 AM

That's because fire can symbolise eternal death. It is equally silly to say hell is mentioned in the bible just because the world translation supports the interpretation. It is not explicitly stated, therefore it is 100% interpretation on either side of the debate. A fiery place where evil people go to die can have a completely different meaning based on interpretation: eternal death, or eternal torture. Both are forms of punishment, and both are eternal. See the problem here?

I also would not bother trying to deny the idea of hell is promoted by the church, with the scriptural support exaggerated as mentioned above, as a scare tactic. That much is obvious.

Firetooth · May 17, 2013, 08:13:13 AM

Also why does nobody use UMD anymore? ???

Genevieve · May 17, 2013, 08:19:30 AM

Because volkov is less likely to write walls of grumpus text in the spa room.

Camaclue · May 17, 2013, 08:51:24 AM

also, this is unbelievably silly

Gen. Volkov · May 17, 2013, 08:17:43 PM

QuoteSo what are the phrases "eternal punishment", "the second death - the lake of fire", and the thing about the evil being thrown into the fiery furnace that Raggon quoted in reference to if it is not Hell?

They are literal translations. Sheol and Gehenna were literally places where people were physically burned. The "eternal punishment" and the "second death" simply refers to the soul not going to heaven. Hades and Tartarus were places of incarceration of the soul. Hell isn't mentioned in the Bible, it's a case of people in modern times not understanding the world the Hebrews of 2000 years ago lived in, plus the invention of a fiery place of torment by the Catholic church.

Genevieve · May 18, 2013, 02:10:11 AM

You're telling me churches just make stuff up?

Shadow · May 18, 2013, 02:11:38 AM

are you really surprised?