Is 3.0 ready for reg?

[Rakefur]

Shadow I think we just need to give it more time. Don't rush it.

[Holby]

Shadow I think we just need to give it more time. Don't rush it.

Time for what?

This isn't an overnight change, it's been in the works for ages. Give a legitimate reason, or don't bother.

[Shadow]

Didn't have time when I first read this for a complete response, don't have it right now, but I'll give one tonight.

OK, first off, the attack buff spells are too powerful. The steal attack buff is like twice as good as an unshielded steal. I should not be able to take someone's entire cash stockpile before maxing them on attacks.

Actually no. The steal attack buff is precisely what steal used to be (it is literally the same code as on reg). And it's subject to shields. The pure leader version is actually half the power that it used to be. You've got it backwards.

Second, the troop balance is still screwed up. Rats are now entirely overpowered and all the other troops suck. Indies who aren't making troops for a clan can sit there and stock up on rats run after run, gaining cash, and sticking over 100 million rats on the market. Meanwhile, if you make stoats, you lose cash so fast it's not even funny. I lose less cash on 30 million rats than I do on like 5 million stoats. That's just retarded. That's 60 million aggregate attack power vs 25 million.

I am considering reducing the attack power of rats relative to their defense by making it perhaps 1.75-1.25 OP-DP after a  PM conversation with Sevah on the subject.

As for consumption, when I balanced it I did it assuming $15 food, but it seems that actual proce being paid is closer to merc prices. I may raise merc food price to $15 to make up the difference, then you will really feel the bit of rat consumption. Another alternative is to redo consumption based on $10 food, which would raise food consumption across the board. Yet another one is to make rats 3-2, but lower their production rate and raise consumption of both resources proportionately. Which one is your favorite?


If you guys feel this way about stuff, why are you not talking about it? I cannot magically feel what you guys have problems with. If you don't like something, tell me about it, or I can't do a thing.

Lastly, sabotage is too easy to use. The ratio requirement is too low I think.

That's easy to fix. Why have I not heard this before?

There's probably more I am not thinking of at the moment, but those are what came to mind off the bat.

Please take the effort to do so.

@Everyone: After the hours I put into coding this thing, I would appreciate a few minutes of your time giving me real feedback instead of vague one-liners if you are going to ask me to not move forward with the project from this point. I'm actually fairly annoyed, not that you don't want to go forward, but that nobody is giving any indication of what they feel is necessary before we do, and yet are still dragging their heels. That's just rude.

If your objections is that you like being able to press leader butan and make heaps of food and cash, just say so. But be honest. Honesty doesn't annoy me, no matter which way the opinion goes.

[Firetooth]

Isn't it possible to make another regular with the new code and keep the old regular? As Death said, 2 different types of game might also make things a bit interesting playing on different servers.

[Shadow]

It's perfectly possible. 3.0 might be better suited to a fast-paced game anyway. If the opposition to moving 3.0 is just because you want the old code, then say so.

[Pippin]

i think we need to keep a server with old code just because its the original copy of the game

[Shadow]

Reg is not even close to the original copy of the game ^_^

[Pippin]

closer than 3.0 and pretty much was everyone was used to for a few years (me atleast).

that said i wasnt sure on the overhaul of the game from turbo to 3.0 and so far ive enjoyed learning whats what and new strategies.

[Neji Hyuga]

Rats OP vs DP ratio is problematic

I think if you increased the rate in losses for rats, when attacking and defending by 2 or 3 times the rate of what it is now would help balance rat mono-stacking herp-derp. more turns to build the lost rats. and more incentive to build weasels or skiffs to defend from standard attacks.

i indy up around 30 mil rats with 50% guard towers towards the end of my runs and get broken relatively easily. like omg only one successful defended attack? 

also chaos is underpowered. it should do so much more damage. it takes less land for a reason to obliterate their troops.
maybe increase the overall troop loss for each unit in the game? i remember standard attacking empires to death and they still had troops around attack number 150.... and i had overkill in offense.  i think 100 successful standard attacks should wipe their troops completely

Tents should be relevant in the everyday run. maybe house more workers? 
camps seem pretty useless as well.

[Shadow]

camps reduce merc prices, so they are useful for resellers and cashers needing quick troops

tents are pretty useless

chaos doing more damage is doable, as is more losses across the board.

[Death]

This rats thing... I dunno how exactly to approach what I see as a problem because you guys are all so used to it, but it really does seem fairly retarded. There is no reason to attack with any other unit. Different attacks add depth to the game in terms of land captured and structures destroyed varying by unit used and this is just like... so boring to me. Just rats rats rats rats STD rats rats rats. I think it should at least become a 1:1 unit.

[Shadow]

Could do that (though I would do 2-2 with reduced production and increased upkeep).

[Gen. Volkov]

Actually no. The steal attack buff is precisely what steal used to be (it is literally the same code as on reg). And it's subject to shields. The pure leader version is actually half the power that it used to be. You've got it backwards.

It's still too powerful.

I am considering reducing the attack power of rats relative to their defense by making it perhaps 1.75-1.25 OP-DP after a  PM conversation with Sevah on the subject.

Bad idea. The rat attack-defense balance is fine, they are just too cheap.

As for consumption, when I balanced it I did it assuming $15 food, but it seems that actual proce being paid is closer to merc prices. I may raise merc food price to $15 to make up the difference, then you will really feel the bit of rat consumption. Another alternative is to redo consumption based on $10 food, which would raise food consumption across the board. Yet another one is to make rats 3-2, but lower their production rate and raise consumption of both resources proportionately. Which one is your favorite?

If I have to pick just one of those, probably the last one.

If you guys feel this way about stuff, why are you not talking about it? I cannot magically feel what you guys have problems with. If you don't like something, tell me about it, or I can't do a thing.

I had already made my feelings known about your changes to the various troop types. I said exactly what has happened would happen. Should have spoken up sooner about Sabotage and Steal though, it just slipped my mind.

That's easy to fix. Why have I not heard this before?

Cause I noticed it and then forgot, but I am apparently the only guy playing still reporting holes in the game.

Please take the effort to do so.

I will.

[Neji Hyuga]

Food consumption is absurdly high. As i run i find needing 1billion food per 100k land to run. now, thats fine if i have it. but i dont. mercs yields very little. and there is literally no food on public market. i actually would be glad to pay 20$ for food  if it was just available but it is not lol

SOOOOO my suggestion increase the output of farms/foragers.  When indying i can build as little as 20% farms and be in the green. so if to make farming part of the meta, increase the output by at least twice or even three times what it is. or just dramatically increase food output when farms is around a certain percentage to land like 70%. so agri-indies notice a very small difference but actual wolves and ferrets who are made to farm would become viable strategies. also i would only farm with wolf since it can also competently  switch to all leaders to well do leader things ;)
so make wolf a decent farmer and a ferret a much more potent farmer since it has less security from steals/rob granaries.

*and Increase drive power: more land gain i think it is at 15% so 30% and then downside extra troop losses at 15% to 30%

[Shoot]

My thoughts:

- As mentioned, rats being 2:1 off:def is a bit overpowered for their value in my opinion. You don't really have a reasonable chance of defending against rats without making yourself extremely weak on the other 3 types, defeating the purpose of attempting to defend yourself from rats to begin with. The proposed 1.75/1.25 change would be sufficient for fixing this in my opinion.

-As Volkov mentioned, I feel the new attack buffs are a bit overpowered, especially the steal buffs. Perhaps they should require an extra turn (for 3 turns per attack), and have their damage toned down some. Using the leader only version takes 2 turns, so it doesn't really seem fair when you can do the same thing + take land in the same amount of turns as well.

-Clan storehouse seems a bit strong to me. I understand this is new, so its to be expected that there are issues, but it feels like trying to kill someone in a clan with a good storehouse is way more difficult than it should be. I observed people on low land receiving an increase of 2-3 mil net in the early game after being hit a single time, presumably all in military handed out by the storehouse.

I feel the forced standard attacks below 500 acres makes it hard enough to kill somebody, but when you have that to deal with, plus a huge influx of troops being sent to them with every hit you make while you are losing a great deal of military by making standard attacks, it seems rather pointless to even attempt. To have a reasonable chance of killing someone with that, you need to sabotage them down to 20% before you start (or else you'll fail later when their leader ratio is high), then use standard attacks the whole way to eliminate what they have before the clan storehouse starts to kick huge amounts of military to that person.