Advanced race discussion: Martin vs Magpie (3.0)

[Shores of Tripoli]

  (turbo) So I was thinking about what would be better for cashing, martin or magpie? I wanted to know what you guys think, and not just the basics, but an advanced discussion on the races and the strategy. I was thinking that martin could be better if you play to it's strengths by utilizing leaders to steal, it would also be better in a war for murders. The magpie however has the worker bonus which is why I think most people go for it unanimously.  Magpie however has -15% defense so if your clanned, that could really hurt you. Especially if you have a lot of cash on you. I'm thinking that martin would be easier to store cash on in bulk, while clanned because of it's +10% defense bonus, as well as it's leadership abilities. The magpie however has the build bonus and the merc bonus, meaning it's possible to run a reseller hybrid strategy. What do you guys think?

PS- Wolf vs Ferret, Rat vs Lizzard, Wildcat vs Fox, and Painted One vs Painted One coming up.

[Ian2424]

Wildcat is definitely better than fox, though. It has a cashing bonus, food bonus, and indying bonus. And rat is better in clan play because it has an excellent worker bonus, and a good indying bonus.

[Shores of Tripoli]

 This thread is for magpie vs martin, for an in dept advanced discussion. State the reasons why you have formulated your oppinions.

[Ian2424]

I was just saying about the races you mentioned ;),and I did. By the way, you spelled opinion wrong.

[Shadow]

both races are good for different things.

The main function of the worker bonus if you aren't using nay barracks is speed of economic recovery after being broken. The difference in worker bonus between the two races is a difference of about 50 turns in filling your land to capacity with workers (takes about 100 turns with a positive bonus, about 150 with a negative one, give or take 25 depending on actual numbers). So a marten does exceptionally well if you are able to hold onto land, because then you can start with mostly full workers and not have to waste time at low production as your workers rejoin you while you take more land.

On the other hand, magpie recovers very quickly from losing land, and so they do better in situations where you are almost certainly going to lose most of your land.

So, from en economic perspective alone, if you are on top holding land away from competition, be a marten. If you are playing the opposition trying to break the guy on top via cashing up a nice army, be a magpie.

Exactly the same thing applies for wolf vs ferret, with the obvious substitutions. When setting up the races, my hope was the above - that neither race is objectively "better" than the other one, but that the current state of the game would determine the best way to go.

[Shores of Tripoli]

 That's a great point, What about there uses in leader missions. Couldn't stealing and robbing with leaders put martin ahead of magpie?

[Shadow]

Again, only if you are able to hold on to some land. Leaders join you very slowly in 3.0, so you need to start with leaders to be able to get the ratio to steal. A good worker bonus will reduce the time it takes for your economy to recover from leaders eating all the workers, so it's not as straightforward as saying martens have better leaders therefore they are better at leadering. The state of the game is as, if not more important than, the actual race stats.

[Shores of Tripoli]

ok cool, I take it that's why Fir was so successful last round as a wildcat then?

[Durza]

Wildcat is definitely better than fox, though. It has a cashing bonus, food bonus, and indying bonus. And rat is better in clan play because it has an excellent worker bonus, and a good indying bonus.

this

[Shores of Tripoli]

 Well, how could you do a run as a wildcat and take advantage of all of those bonuses at once?

[Ian2424]

Build 40% markets, 40% foragers, and 20% tents. Then demolish and build huts, I guess?

[Shores of Tripoli]

That sound's ok but wildcat has -10 build. How exactly could wildcat stack up to other races with that? I'm not telling you that you're wrong because I don't know, that's why I'm asking. Things like wildcat, fox, and stoat probably aren't going to be too good until race spells come out for 3.0

[Ian2424]

Just because a race doesn't have a bonus to make buildings cheaper doesn't mean they can't build.

[Shores of Tripoli]

But it'll hurt more.

[Shadow]

build bonus is actually pretty signficant if you are trying to defend, because it means switching to camps or towers takes more turns than otherwise.