Race Spells

[Peace Alliance]

something like that just seems like theres no use behind it other than gaining an extra 10 turns to use in those 20 minutes

though it could be abused within an unclanned team of 3 men to hold land for an hour or more with a larger team with no army by just taking land from each other and using the spell

The unclanned team would have to take the land outside of when the spell has it barricaded... So that wouldn't really work.

Same problem. It has no utility except to mess with another person's run. The only people who would find any use for this spell are people who camp out all day waiting for someone to screw with.

I would have thought the usefulness is obvious; It's a spell that allows the player to avoid getting onlined. It would be a waste to use it pointlessly, players would want to save it for their runs.

[Shadow]

What would happen is that someone would lock some land, camp online until someone breaks them once, and then block them out for 20 mins. Or cast it and online someone else without any possibility of retal.

[The Obliterator]

What about aa spell called buff.
It would increases your networth on the score pages by a certain amount. Kinda like reverse cloak.

Also mabey a spell called sacrifice for say the painted ones where you can sacrifice a percentage of your troops to gain workers.

Just a few ideas ill keep thinking.

[Peace Alliance]

That wouldn't be called "Buff" it would be "Bluff," and it's an OK spell (but I personally find it less attractive then the cloak spell).

The worker spell has too much of an effect on balance, what I like about good race spells is that they are an addition to the game - rather then just an advancement of current balances.

What would happen is that someone would lock some land, camp online until someone breaks them once, and then block them out for 20 mins. Or cast it and online someone else without any possibility of retal.

I don't think delaying an attack for 20 minutes would foil a plot to attack someone.

Using it to online somebody else is unintended but... I'm not entirely sure it wouldn't be a neat feature. Only in very rare circumstances is it effective to immediately attack someone who is onlining you - usually it's better just to rush to make a defense or to wait until they've had at you then attack them back... I don't know if this would be abusive or intensely strategic.

[Shadow]

I prefer spells to affect the game rather than the metagame. Cloak is borderline in that area. 20 minutes off attack is pretty useless except in a few contexts, all of which are abusable.

[Peace Alliance]

It seems we disagree fundamentally here, shadow. Race spells that simply enhance what is already there are pointless. Like the Enrich spell, for example, just gave the wolf a boost to food production - something we could simply have put into the race chart instead.

In contrast, race spells that provide a new aspect to the game are not simply a buff or balance, they are a unique characteristic that sets the race apart. Good spells give someone an ability, not just an advantage.

[Pippin]

personally i think that the bonuses should be given to races that require a boost to become good enough to compete with those more effective races

[Shadow]

It seems we disagree fundamentally here, shadow. Race spells that simply enhance what is already there are pointless. Like the Enrich spell, for example, just gave the wolf a boost to food production - something we could simply have put into the race chart instead.

In contrast, race spells that provide a new aspect to the game are not simply a buff or balance, they are a unique characteristic that sets the race apart. Good spells give someone an ability, not just an advantage.

You misunderstand me.

New game features are wonderful and lovely. Your suggestion is not a game feature, though, it is a metagame feature. Meaning that it only has use when you know something about the actual RL play habits of your opponents, as opposed to their ingame play habits. Game features that players have direct control over should not depend fundamentally on what other players are doing in real life.

But even ignoring that for the moment, I can't really think of a context in which this would be useful without being abusive.

[windhound]

Heh.  That's called balancing Pippin.
There are various playing styles, you choose the race that fits yours the best.
Ideally there should be no "master race" that stands above all the others.  Just races that fit a strategy better than another.

Online attacking isn't against the rules Ollie, but it is still considered a fairly dirty tactic.  
If someone is online'ng you a lot, you've failed in the "diplomacy" aspect of the game.  
Or won, because you've made enough people angry that they'll stalk you, and potentially throw their own run inorder to attempt to wreck yours.  
Depends what your goals are.

There _might_ be a way to work in a shield of some sort, but I still think the abuses of it will far outweigh any good.  
There's a lot of players that sign in to run.  They will not / can not wait 20 min for a shield to wear off.  So if the person shielding has all the land, there goes their run.  

What we might could do is put inplace a system where if the player has attacked within x amount of time (10 min), they get a defense boost.  Either harder to break or kills more army.  
Could do a spell for that as well, temp defense boost.  "Your army is now on High Alert." Not unassailable, but harder.  

[Shadow]

Could do a spell for that as well, temp defense boost.  "Your army is now on High Alert." Not unassailable, but harder. 

Lizard fortify does exactly that

[Peace Alliance]

You guys aren't getting it. Yes, onlining is part of the game - that's exactly my point. I'm not complaining about getting onlined, I run passive and am completely unaffected by online attacks.

I am, however, thinking about a spell that would be hugely beneficial to a player that exists outside of the current game mechanics.

Yes, shadow, that means it weirdly fits your description of a meta game, but that's neither here nor there. It's like you're saying that a spell that effects our RL behaviour is a bad thing - if that is the case explain why we have the Raised Defenses spell, or why the game is even a persistent online game instead of something you play at home on your own.

It would be a valuable spell. If I know that I can run without fear of being onlined it allows me to do things I wouldn't otherwise do.

There are other uses as well, like your example of casting the spell when you see someone break you, but that would be your decision, it would be a cost/benifit, and it would mean you can't use it when you run online next time. Personally I think that would be a stupid decision: even if your attacker buggers off someone else will break you if they were able to, meanwhile you've left your next run exposted.

There are 2 really important differences between promisance as it was originally intended and as it is within our current situation:

1. Promisance was obvious designed for a larger player-base. With more actors on the playing field online attacks would not be so much of a problem, since with only 20 people active you can very quickly scan the list for advantageous online-attacking opportunities.

2. Promisance was written in 2003. We didn't have mobiles, the internet was slower, and I was a lot skinnier. People simply weren't online as much. Someone camping online (and i think you know who I mean) can just sit there taking advantage of whoever runs throughout the day.

[Shadow]

It would be a valuable spell. If I know that I can run without fear of being onlined it allows me to do things I wouldn't otherwise do.

Most players go an entire set without getting onlined. Most players don't have to plan runs around being onlined because it just doesn't matter, the chances are too slim. So for most players, this would not be a useful application of the spell.

The other possible application is to block someone attacking you. Now there are two cases: either the player waits 20 minutes and then runs, in which case the spell is useless, or his run is ruined and he leaves and wastes turns until his next opportunity to do so. In the first case, there was no point to having the spell at all. In the second, we just messed up someone's schedule at minimal gain to the caster since someone else will be along shortly to take their land. I guess there is a third case where you wait until someone is in the middle of a run and then cast it, which would be pretty much as bad as onlining them yourself, which is not something we want to encourage or make any easier than it already is.

To make this useful without being abusive, you would have to be locking land, and someone who is able to break you would have to be about to run but had to be done in the next 20 minutes. You would have to be online for this monumentally coincidental event for it to benefit you.

It's like you're saying that a spell that effects our RL behaviour is a bad thing - if that is the case explain why we have the Raised Defenses spell, or why the game is even a persistent online game instead of something you play at home on your own.

Raised defenses doesn't affect RL behaviour because we don't know when they will run out for our target. I don't know what you are getting at with the other example.

Basically, there is just no way that this would be useful except in some very limited contexts, and there are too many possibilities for abuse and screwing with other people to make those few times worth it.

[The Obliterator]

I had another thought

How about one that double the protection of raised defences. ie so leaderers trying to sack you only get half as much.

[Ian2424]

I thought we were having race spells this round!? :'(

[Pippin]

another abuse to the 20 minute invincible spell, when a leading emp player that has a land lock drops net to gather land and is otherwise venerable to attacks without the spell becomes safe when doing this.