SOPA and PIPA

[Dark Claws]

Okay people, everyones talking about it so we should too. I'll summarize SOPA, PIPA is basically the same thing. Anyway, for those of you who don't know, anything that is posted and leads to a copyright infringement via a foreign website can make the website that had it posted responsible and lead to the destruction of it. So, if I posted a link that leads to a website that has illegal stuff on it, the company who legally owns the stuff can shut down RWL because someone ruined it for everyone. Because I'm lazy, I'll leave it at that. That was a very brief summary with a very biased opinion. Do your own research if you wish to find out more (you probably already know a lot about it). I just want your opinions because someone could point out something about it that can be good (the intention is good, the wording really isn't). So, I think you get my point here.

[windhound]

Little late here Dark Claws ^_^
There's a topic in UMD iirc, but no worries.

Both bills have, for the moment, been shelved.  The blackouts by Wikipedia, reddit, etc - and the messages left on Google and Facebook drew enough ire that the money coming from the MPAA wasn't enough to risk their campaign. 
However, the ideas behind them haven't been. 
Check out this new one - http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/op9z0/threatening_new_bill_worse_than_sopapipa_make/
Piracy was too easy to brush off, but who would defend Child Pornography?  Anyone who doesn't support this bill does! 

Basically there's too much money, too much power at stake here.  The media companies, as long as they see the internet as a threat instead of an opportunity, will find ways to try and shut it down.  Being big campaign donors and lobbying (bribing) congress critters is very effective. 

[Gen. Volkov]

OMG, THEY BLACKED OUT WIKIPEDIA! (I really don't care.) There's always some new bill made by congressmen who don't really understand the internet, that will attempt to censor it. Even if the bills pass, they won't succeed. Trying to censor the internet is like trying to herd cats. There needs to be a "I know about it, I've known about it for awhile, but I still don't care" option.

[Shadow]

having shelved SOPA/PIPA means that it didn't get actually voted down, which means that it will be back. I am impressed that the campaigns worked, but they only delayed things, unfortunately.

As for this new bill, windy is right that the language is designed to attack the opposition before it even starts.

[Krowdon]

I haven't Heard anything about the new bill.

What's it called?

[Sharptooh]

Don't really know too much about SOPA or PIPA, from what little I've heard they sound pretty terrible.

Although to be honest, I'm in the "Don't really care" camp here, this is something that effects America, and whilst it'd be a pretty big annoyance to large internet firms, I fail to see how it would effect me in any significant way.

[Shadow]

They could block american traffic to foreign sites, which could easily cripple many sites regardless of country or origin.

[Durza]

Idea is good, execution not so much.  I saw something about OPEN, which is supposed to be a better version of SOPA and PIPA

[Sharptooh]

They could block American traffic to foreign sites, which could easily cripple many sites regardless of country or origin.

I realise that, but that is only really to to the detriment of large internet companies (read; Google, Yahoo)

[Kilkenne]

Without large internet companies the internet will literally regress back to what it was in the late 90s. You do not want this.

[Sharptooh]

Contrary to popular belief, large internet companies can exist without the traffic that America provides.

[Shadow]

They could block American traffic to foreign sites, which could easily cripple many sites regardless of country or origin.

I realise that, but that is only really to to the detriment of large internet companies (read; Google, Yahoo)

Not true at all, in fact the main criticism was how it would negatively affect small businesses. Most small businesses depend on user generated content (comments, contributions, etc), and SOPA could have been used to blacklist a website that someone commented on with something that violated copyright, even if the site owner was not responsible for it.

It could even have been used offensively to cause the competition to be censored, etc, and a block from SOPA for a small business would be fatal.


There is also the argument that what the US does, the rest of the world is not far behind. So if it did pass, I would expect similar legislation around the developed world over the next couple of decades.

[Kilkenne]

Contrary to popular belief, large internet companies can exist without the traffic that America provides.

Go to the world's second largest search engine, Baidu.com. Let me know how you like it.

[Sharptooh]

Sorry, I should clarify.

I realise that SOPA is a hideously malformed bill, created by people who have a vested interest in Hollywood doing well, and who also have absolutely no idea what the internet is about/how it works.

But my point is that I don't particularly care; if I was in America I would almost definitely be doing everything I could to kill this thing, however there's nothing I can do about it because I don't live in the US.

I find it frustrating when English Wikipedia blacks out and urges me to "write to my local senator" when I don't have one; the attitude that America is the be all and end all frustrates me sometimes.

In short, the bill sucks, but I'm not getting myself riled up about it because the world won't end if it passes and there's nothing I can do about it.

There is also the argument that what the US does, the rest of the world is not far behind. So if it did pass, I would expect similar legislation around the developed world over the next couple of decades.

This is the only thing I'm afraid of, although I would like to hope the politicians here aren't so spineless they'll copy whatever America does just to get brownie points with their politicans.

[windhound]

OMG, THEY BLACKED OUT WIKIPEDIA! (I really don't care.) There's always some new bill made by congressmen who don't really understand the internet, that will attempt to censor it. Even if the bills pass, they won't succeed. Trying to censor the internet is like trying to herd cats. There needs to be a "I know about it, I've known about it for awhile, but I still don't care" option.

But my point is that I don't particularly care; if I was in America I would almost definitely be doing everything I could to kill this thing, however there's nothing I can do about it because I don't live in the US.

You should care.  Both of you.
They took down Megaupload after a year of trying.  With SOPA/PIPA it could have been done without any of the legal wrangling, certainly much, much less than a years worth.
Its worth noting that Megaupload complied perfectly within the rules of the DMCA -- any takedown requests were honored immediately.  There was some other stupidity done by the admins which effected its take down.

There's certainly an idea that the "internet routes around censorship" -- but this requires a free and clear base from which to re-route.  It seems like many of the US Copyright and IP laws are adopted by foreign countries as well.  If every country has a controlled internet, what then?  If the root DNS servers are compromised and gov't filtered, what then?  I guess you can still type IP addresses, but who does that?  It breaks the internet.
The MegaUpload guys were out of New Zealand iirc, they got extradited.  The US laws already reach far from the borders. 

Sharpy, you _can_ write American congress critters.  Contact info is easy to find.  Simply state that you're a Britainite and that you're worried about the effects their law may have.  They probably won't reply, but if the bill sponsors get a good number of foreign responses it could have some influence.