The No Leaders Theme

[Firetooth]

You underestimate stoat, I think. You'd be surprised at the amount it if you manage your loyalty well.

I dunno. It seems like a lot of pointless building construction and demolition producing that ends up producing less cash then a marten and generally less food then a wolf. Plus, if land is scarce it eats up loyalty.

An unclanned marten or wolf who finishes their run on 60-70 ratio then gets maxed at a 150-175 ratio has plenty of loyalty and better production imo.

Stoats are probably the best race in a half-land round, though.

[Shadow]

Have you used stoat since the new race chart? Relatively speaking, it is better than it was as compared to the other leader races. The build/demo thing is a non-issue, you can do it while healing at no extra turn cost than what you would be spending already, and loyalty costs are low while in that stage. It has better loyalty production than a marten and significantly less loyalty cost for the same amount of cash. As a cashing race, it could give marten a run for its money, while having better defenses in both troops and leaders. Heh.

[Firetooth]

Last time I used it was the half-land, which was followed by the emp round. If it was updated in between it might mean by experience is a little outdated.

Probably true on build/demoing, actually. I was also thinking of academying itself. Generally it takes me a lot of academying to get to peak. 50turns/25 missions, at least. Which also eats out of production time. Plus, you'd have to academy a ton of leaders to be able to produce 2* what loot would produce on a 100 ratio opposed to a 175 ratio...I'm not even sure if (in terms of math) it would be possible to do so.

[Shadow]

That's not the issue in comparison of the two. You don't need to be producing double with loot to match a marten. Goldmine takes more than twice the loyalty for twice the production - you get more cash in less turns, but you are paying a premium in loyalty. There is no need to academy to peak, just til you get hit with diminishing returns. Overall, stoat gets more cash for their loyalty, but slightly less for their turns. But since marten can only goldmine for less turns because of higher cost in loyalty, it evens out long term.

[Firetooth]

As I said though, you have lots of excess loyalty. I never ran out of loyalty last round-I had a few hundred mil (a run or two) lieing around at the end. If you're smart you can produce 2 runs worth of loyalty in one run. Plus, academying requires quite a bit of loyalty in itself iirc. I might try out stoat for two runs then marten for two runs next round on the same land to see how they compare.

[Kilkenne]

Stoat isn't for netting, Stoat is for smashing other leader players.

[Pippin]

a bat is also handy

[Shadow]

Stoat isn't for netting, Stoat is for smashing other leader players.

Only because people haven't tried since the race change, not because that is manifestly true.

[Kilkenne]

Why would you use an inferior netting race to net? That's just stupid.

[Neobaron]

It isn't inferior in the long term with regard to i/o efficiency.

In other words, Stoats could theoretically dominate a long-term reg race even though they lack a specialized gathering spell.

[Shadow]

Exactly. It isn't inferior as a netting race. It -was- inferior as a netting race, but it isn't anymore.

[Kilkenne]

I will maintain that if your goal is to produce networth, you want to do it more quickly than you would want to do it slowly, therefore I think that you'd use Wolf/Marten if you want to do things proper. It's a matter of what your aim is when choosing a race. If you want to smash things up or be a lazy holder, be a Stoat. If you want to create food or cash, play Wolf or Marten, respectively.

[Neobaron]

True, but the question isn't about specialization in this case, just net efficiency.

[Sevah]

Stoat isn't for netting, Stoat is for smashing other leader players.

I stand by my choice. Stoat is not good for netgaining. It's practical uses make up a little but not enough. As a player who can run all races to their optimal performance and beyond their intentions I say stoat is the worst race available.

In no way can stoat compare to marten at making cash and if it did the minimum merc price is ridiculous. Indying is dead cos the costs are brutal. You need more leaders to stop a wolf gaining espy's and leaders chew food which stoat has a food eating penalty
They're ok for attacking if ya teamed but eh, with that weak defence you'd wanna be massing skiffs cos I'd standard attack 3times to kill an army favouring line 1 and 3

Overall stoat getting 4out of 10 is generous. Trust.

[Sharptooh]

Surprised you didn't rate Wolf higher Sevah, that is one mean race