Suggestions for the Lounge

[Shadow]

We would definitely need global logins for it to work.

[The Lady Shael]

Actually it might be simpler than that. You're already logged into the forums/game so all you have to do is pass the username to the chat app (and prevent guests from using the chat). The only confusing thing will be figuring where someone is chatting from, and who is who, since everyone always uses different horde names on Turbo. In that case, global logins would be ideal, so everyone only has one identity.

[Sharptooh]

I think we can all agree though that macs are horrible and need to be eliminated.

lolneo, sharptooth
Macs > Windows by soo much.  I get commercial software support and a certified unix base with a mac.  I also can't get pwned just by browsing to the wrong website, the mac 'virus' that got some press a few weeks back required people to put in their admin password for it to do anything.

Linux > Macs

I don't want to pay £1000 for a machine that hasn't even got amazing specs, then be coaxed into buying new versions of an OS where nothing seems to change (except the name)

Granted Macs are pretty virus resistant, but so is Linux, more so infact, and it's free

Also, fun fact - http://windfish.org/dump/rwlbrowsers.png  Chrome is the leading browser for redwallwarlords.com

If you add up all of the Firefox share from the different operating systems it actually comes out as:

Firefox - 33.70%
Chrome - 31.80%

Although to be fair almost all of that 5.50% from "Firefox/Linux" probably comes from me and Firetooth  :D

[Shadow]

Firefox/Linux is me about half the time. The other half being Windows/Firefox.

[windhound]

Sharptooth, Apple is releasing Lion for $29.99. 
Microsoft released Win7 for $100+, when its basically a Vista Service Pack.
And there's been a _lot_ of changes and fixes between OS X editions, many under the hood and not UI related. 
The OS X install disk is also unlocked.  My Snow Leopard disk will work on any (intel) mac I throw it in, no license keys no nothin.  I can clone OS installs between computers without a corporate license and without being told I'm a filthy thief. 
Macs are more expensive.  But they're better build machines.  You can't compare spec to spec while ignoring the case, especially on the laptops.  There's no comparison between a MacBook Pro and a standard Dell.  The closer comparison is the Lenovo Thinkpad T series (they still makin' the T?), and they're closer on price point. 
If its better to buy a cheap laptop and replace it every year or two or to buy a more expensive one that'll last is another subject.

I like Linux, I do.  I ran Fedora on my desktop from my freshman year in college till the year I graduated. 
Linux has made gigantic progress in terms of usability and stability, but well.  There's still extremely limited commercial support for it.  And linux still gets pwned, its not mega-secure.  There's a reason Redhat made SELinux.
Also, the distros do stupid stuff like Gnome 3 and Unity which work towards destroying all they worked to achieve.  And putting KDE4 into the main install before the devs said it was done, KDE4 just became 'usable.'
[/minirant]

But yeah Shael, if you think its doable by all means
Using the forum's cookie is a good idea

[Sharptooh]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Acer-i7-2630QM-RAM-HDD-Blu-ray/dp/B004VE740K/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1308409986&sr=1-2

Is cheaper, and better than the cheapest mac here:

http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro?mco=MTAyNTQzMjc

By a difference of £200

The acer PC can be upgraded and tinkered to and customised in about a billion and one ways, I can also vouch for acers reliability, I'm using a 5 year old acer PC now that hasn't broken at all in all the time I've had it.

Apple PC's are over priced, over-rated, and they try to woo people with the "shiny factor", that and the lasted mac-book pro doesn't even come with a disc drive (if i remember correctly)

Sharptooth, Apple is releasing Lion for $29.99. 
Microsoft released Win7 for $100+, when its basically a Vista Service Pack.

"At the WWDC in 2009, Apple stated that Snow Leopard features no new major visual changes.[54] Instead, the release focuses on refining the operating system to enable better performance."

I would say Snow leopard is more of a service pack that Windows 7 was, besides which you neglect to mention most precious OSX packs were marketed for $129

Also, the distros do stupid stuff like Gnome 3 and Unity which work towards destroying all they worked to achieve.  And putting KDE4 into the main install before the devs said it was done, KDE4 just became 'usable.'

There's way too much politics between Gnome 3 and Unity, I don't even fully understand it all myself, although I think RedHat had way too much of a big role in Gnome 3's development and thus included Mutter which is outdated, old and rather rubbish (as I understand) even when compared to compiz, which itself is old and outdated, bringing only shiny to the table.

Unity seems like a mess, it's just basically all of the ideas the employees at canonical had merged into one horrible mess of a UI which borrows way too much from Mac OSX (Windows controls on the left . . . why!?) and isn't even stable enough to release atm, although that didn't stop them from doing it a couple of months back

[windhound]

Never disputed that macs cost a lot.  They do.  They're quality hardware. 
Not saying everything that doesn't cost as much as a Mac isn't quality hardware, but quite a bit isnt.  And a lot of the time you wont beable to tell within the first year or two.  Its year 3 and year 4 that tell you how well it was made. 
Had friends in college with Dells.  Lots of Dells.  Almost every single one had hinge failure by the end of the second year.  My IBM T42 had no such issues, thought I abused it perhaps more than I should have.  Heat dissipation is another issue most of the Dells had and my Thinkpad lacked.  Not really trying to slam Dell here, but almost everyone I knew had a Dell or an IBM.  The IBMs all lasted far longer.
The resale value on macs is also pretty impressive, if that matters to you.

But yeah, the Mac can be upgraded and tinkered with just as much as the Acer, believe it or not.  Its all standard stuff, just a slightly different boot up process - EFI instead of BIOS.  Before you start the APPLE IS USING PROPRIETARY STUFF rant, EFI had been used in servers long before Apple started using it.  Windows Sever 2k3, Vista 64, and some Linux distros support EFI.

You're clearly not going to believe me when I say it, but Macs are not _just_ shiney. 
Look at the MacPro tower.  One of the most overpriced items you can buy from Apple.  http://www.apple.com/macpro/design.html
The case is pretty from the outside and incredibly functional on the inside.  Everything is modular and easily swappable.  The harddrives are all on quick-swap trays that lock in when you close the case and simply slide out when you open it, no cables.  Everything is on rails and all easily serviced.
Its a great design, one that hasn't changed much since they came out with the PowerMac series (I've got a first gen PowerMac and a current gen Mac Pro)
Heck, its even 'green' - http://www.apple.com/macpro/environment.html

The Macbook Air is Apple's netbook, for lack of a better term.  Its their ultraportable laptop and it does lack an optical drive - because its so thin it couldnt physically have one.  It really is an amazing piece of hardware, and I'd say that even if it wasn't Apples'. 
http://www.apple.com/macbookair/
Btw, to compensate for the lack of an internal drive apple developed software that allows you to share the optical drive in your desktop with the Air.  iirc it works with both mac  and windows - but all Macs on a network can share an optical drive.  Extermal drives are also available, and about any standard USB/Firewire external will work.

The versions of Mac OS X before 10.5 Snowleopard were all, if not major, pretty big advances.  10.1 was terrible.  10.2 less aweful and faster.  10.3 stable (finally) and faster.  10.4 more stable but roughly same speed, features improved.  10.5 a little heavier, the first to be a little slower the the predecessor, features added, new dock.  10.6 a general smoothing out.  10.7 will be another general smoothing out and feature add. 
If you want a feature comparison I'm sure there's dozens out there.  Blindly saying all the OS X versions are the same is the same as saying Windows 3.1 is the same was Windows 7.  There's about that much difference between OS X 10.1 and OS X 10.6

Up until 10.4 OS X actually got measurably faster with each editions.  I believe Microsoft has done the same thing, only in reverse.  iirc 10.6 is faster than 10.5, and has around half the footprint.  We'll see for Lion.

Nice batch of FUD though

Linux...  I just donno.  I've tried getting a copy running in a virtual machine to play with the new Gnome and Unity but I have yet to get the 3d drivers working.  I'll try again in a bit, pretty sure its all doable - missing some dependencies for Fedora and got distracted.   
Almost all reports on Unity have been really bad though, and its a shame.

[Kilkenne]

nerds