"Golden age" vs "Platinum age" RWL

[Firetooth]

Lol, I think you misinterpreted that. I was saying you shouldn't blame yourself as people have adpated to the changes and enjoy them. Once you've given somebody an xbox 360, they are not going to want to go back to an original xbox, for example. The newer player base will not want to go back to the old ways, and by encouraging all this "golden age" stuff you are pretty much forcing people to play the odl way, or receive criticisim if they say otherwise.

I just think the staff are being very one sided and not considering other views. Look at Shael's first sentence:

"Firefight are you effing serious?"

If you don't treat other people's views with respect, you are throwing fuel onto a fire. I am actually pretty dissapointed to be treated this way. I thought the community was more valued.

[Shadow]

The change in particular that I was thinking of was making leader takedowns near-impossible. While it ddoes make for a peaceful netfest, I don't think this is at all in line with the philosophy of the game. So reverting it was important. And it will mean easier destruction, but it also means more interaction.

[Firetooth]

The change in particular that I was thinking of was making leader takedowns near-impossible. While it ddoes make for a peaceful netfest, I don't think this is at all in line with the philosophy of the game.

I actually agree leader takedowns shouldn't be impossible, and I think the current changes are working well. I'm more reffering to the sudden "peace is for the weak" and "diplomacy should be a central role" attitudes. War s obviously a central part of the game, but the focus is becoming distorted too much. PA played several times without so much as an attack, and he's an admin. I agree war's are good, but the whole killfest and other tactics are getting quite annoying.

[Shadow]

For the record: there was only ever a single spy that I am aware of (pacman) and he was inactive most of the round. So most of that was perception rather than actual problems.

Yes, the kills were kinda lame. And there were lots of them.

It isn't that diplomacy needs to be central its that INTERACTION needs to be central. The last few months there has been very little interaction outside of clans/individuals. That's what was attempted this round. And it didn't work all that well, but that is not because it is boring or lame in general, it is just because it is different and nobody really knew how to react to it.

For example, Kilk and I were often on msn while Lucy and I were taking down his teammates. It was fun! Trash talk and all. (Stupid Kilk). But it was not personal. That's what it should be.

This is the important point. This, more than anything else, is what characterized what we call the golden age. Not diplomacy, or bloodbaths, but the ability to be bitter enemies in character and great friends outside of the game. That is what we have lost. And that is what people are trying to bring back.

[Firetooth]

There were several spies. At least one, possibly two, in my clan.

Interaction is good, but not necessarily diplomacy. My model round would be the race ladder smile round, not just because I won. Lots of net, variety of tactics, two big teams and a close finish. Plenty of interaction, too, just in the form of trash talk and such opposed to "hey, why did you do ____" and "what I never infact you did ______"

Bitter enemies ic and friends oc is cool, but the sudden shift to diplomacy literally ruling the round, spies and all, was not cool. Also, as I said, there was no ic. Only oc.

Edit: Purpy D says they prefer the current RWL. And they were around in the golden age.

[Shadow]

I think you have the misconception that the RWL community is "choosing" to play the old way, as though it is a democratic vote or something. It is not that, it is that there are two groups playing with very different styles. Nobody is making anyone else play their way, they are just asking that you don't get mad at them for doing it. And if changes nee to happen to make the styles compatible, then they will happen naturally. It is not a choice or rationalization, it is just evolution. No point arguing with it, because it just happens (this works on a number of levels. coughkyrocough).

[Neobaron]

This round was nothing like the 'golden age'.

It wasn't intended to be.

The Revolution isn't intended to restore the golden age.

The Revolution is intended to break this pass-agg elitist/posturing garbage that has taken precedence in RWL and replace it with a 'community that also has a game' atmosphere.

---

Related, I threw the pebble that has become our RWL nightly MSN chats.

It was calculated that it would grow into something enjoyable for everyone that would break these visages and allow us to actually ENJOY THE SHENANIGANS and see further humor in them.

Anyone who has joined us will agree that it's all in fun.

The entire time Lucy and Shadow were taking down Volkov, they were literally talking to Kilk on MSN - AND LAUGHING AT THE SITUATION.

It will continue to be in fun.

The only one with an issue about the direction here is you, Firetooth, and perhaps Sharpy and a couple others who would necessarily be displaced by a culture change.

Whining here will not stop the flood. We're going to make this fun again - in and out of the game - whether you like it or not.

[Sharptooh]

The only one with an issue about the direction here is you, Firetooth, and perhaps Sharpy and a couple others who would necessarily be displaced by a culture change.

I don't like change . . . but if this continues I'll get used to it, probably come to enjoy it with time

Related, I threw the pebble that has become our RWL nightly MSN chats.

Different timezone = No MSN Chats  :( unless stay up until about 11PM, which I have taken to doing a bit lately.

[Shadow]

the msn chats usually span most of the day, with various people dropping in and out. You are in the same time zone as ashy (roughly) and she usually makes it for a while.  Chances are if you see me online you can ask for an invite (do I have you on msn? pm me you address if you want me to add you. I generally say no to people who add me without telling me who they are first).

[Sharptooh]

Already added you on MSN, I'm "seandu@live.co.uk" think I chatted with you once

[Shadow]

Yea you're on there. My msn has been weird lately and making me appear offline, but you can always try to talk to me anyway and see if I am there haha.

[Firetooth]

I think you have the misconception that the RWL community is "choosing" to play the old way, as though it is a democratic vote or something. It is not that, it is that there are two groups playing with very different styles. Nobody is making anyone else play their way, they are just asking that you don't get mad at them for doing it. And if changes nee to happen to make the styles compatible, then they will happen naturally. It is not a choice or rationalization, it is just evolution. No point arguing with it, because it just happens (this works on a number of levels. coughkyrocough).

Well, Shael and others seem to be pushing for a return of the old days to be encouraged at the very least. That impedes my style of play as newer players will instead be taught by the older standards, and most players will react to me differently ingame. Also, I won't be able to keep up if huge diplomatic stuff is mandatory for clan play, alongside spies.

I'd disagree that this is evolution, seeing as generally evolution is an improvement, or at least something that helps the species better pass on their genes. Going back to the old days is, in many ways, going backwards. I know your using the phrase less from a biological standpoint, but it doesn't work:

1. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

Things are going backwards if we return to kills, huge diplo etc. A testament to this is the low net produced this round-me and holby solo produced over half the net KM did at their peak with 4indies ! (I produced 600bil cash)

Not only that, many people don't want to return to this playstyle, but the oldbies seem to be unable to accept that. If they haven't played on the site for years, I don't know why they are so insistent that the old ways are better.

Anyway, I'm off to revise now.

nice last line lol

Edit: Neo, honestly what is this I don't even...your saying the community needs to overwhelm the game? I like the community here (though honestly lately I'm not sure why), but that is a stupid philopshy. The game is plenty fun as it was, and your supposed improvements have actually made the game less fun so far...also, you are acting like a huge elitist. You aren't a staff member, stop acting like you have any control over where the game goes. All you seem to want to do is create cliques of people who can enjoy the game where as the game is intended for younger audiences! What interest will 10 year olds, the main target audience, want to do with a bunch of adults in msn convos and forum chats? You seem to have no grasp of what your changes actually mean, as you seem to forget this game is also for younger audiences, and most people here started young.

Basically, they'll benefit the few that are closer friends and alienate the rest. Which is not good, and I am generally surprised you think so. I'm already starting to notice the emergence of the RWL msn chat clique. There's nothing wrong with you being friends, but I think if you're saying that people need to be close to each other to enjoy the game then you're wrong. Cliques always have and always will alienate people...as I said, my problem is not that there is a msn clique, but that this seems to be your idea of a good community. ???

Now I am generally off to revise. Night.

[Shadow]

The old style of play impedes yours. But your style of play impedes theirs. Why should they be the ones to change? Why should you? As I said, this will happen naturally, and we will probably end up somewhere in between.

You are getting very hung up on the spies. That wasn't really a big part of anything. It just sort of happened last round.

The "diplomacy" you are speaking of as a bad thing is exactly the IC/OC thing - enemies in game, friends outside of it. It's not joining other clans for protection or nonsense like that, it's just a general term for how you interact with others.

Clique indeed. There is no clique. You are making that up entirely in your head. There is just people who are not bothered by different play styles, and those that are, and sooner or later everyone will forget that it even happened.

[Kilkenne]

You are completely ignoring the parts that you choose to ignore in favor of trying to say that your way is the right way and ours is the wrong way to play. That is insulting and outright wrong. You are taking a situation that saw you not the victor of as an excuse to lead a crusade against something that you cannot argue is not good for the community. The fact that anyone here skips rounds and does not play, but still stays active on the forums is indicative that this is a community first, and a game second. Just because a lot of us hang out on MSN together does not mean that we are aligned in every single way. Most of us are in different clans, or in no clan at all, in fact. In Reg, we are all in different clans and still hang out. Our roster of nightly chats in relation to last Turbo round also included a lot of people who either don't play, or people that we don't play with.

The fact that you are the only one that is arguing about going "back" to some kind of playstyle is laughable. Your slanted view of things comes from the fact that the person that you have the most contact with (Sharptooth, who has been handling things very well and appears to be able to separate) is also on your side saying that everything is lame and the "MSN Crew" are a pile of hitlers. You use this logic to justify saying that you think that "many" people have a huge problem with it. Let me give you a list of the people who have come on and have joined us to hang out in the last several days:

Briar
Ungatt
Kilkenne
Neobaron
Volkov
Shael
Shadow
Genevieve
Holby
Abby the Rat
Vargarth
Twilight Shadow
The Purple Dragon
Ashyra
Kell
Peace Alliance
Ruddertail
Windhound
++Like 3-4 peoples' girlfriends/other friends


And the list can go on. That's by my count, without counting you or your brother. You are trying to tell me that all of us are one huge clique and do things together in a way that is malicious towards the community? We are in different clans, have different game goals, and can separate the two things quite readily. Newsflash: We are the community. So are you, and you have made the choice to not be a part of this part of it. Don't use your timezone as an excuse because we have something going or can make something all throughout the day. If you don't want to participate, that's your prerogative. If this is a game first, and a community second, or some balance, then excuse me for getting it all wrong. Maybe you should just not log on the forums anymore and play however you can just using the clan forum. It would be easier on your mental state than just panicking nonstop about every little thing that doesn't go your way.

There have been people that choose not to get on MSN with us that we interact with just fine, as well. I like Pac-man and Krowdon, Daryn and Siegemaster, they've all been around the block with us. But they don't come on MSN and that's their choice. We respect your guys' right to not come on here, and can interact through the forums. To say that it is 100% necessary to be on with us and then to say that those that aren't on are horribly hamstrung/disadvantaged is an insulting joke.

I hope you stop making serious posts soon, because you're seriously coming off the bigger jerk here.

[Firetooth]

You are completely ignoring the parts that you choose to ignore in favor of trying to say that your way is the right way and ours is the wrong way to play. That is insulting and outright wrong. You are taking a situation that saw you not the victor of as an excuse to lead a crusade against something that you cannot argue is not good for the community. The fact that anyone here skips rounds and does not play, but still stays active on the forums is indicative that this is a community first, and a game second. Just because a lot of us hang out on MSN together does not mean that we are aligned in every single way. Most of us are in different clans, or in no clan at all, in fact. In Reg, we are all in different clans and still hang out. Our roster of nightly chats in relation to last Turbo round also included a lot of people who either don't play, or people that we don't play with.

The fact that you are the only one that is arguing about going "back" to some kind of playstyle is laughable. Your slanted view of things comes from the fact that the person that you have the most contact with (Sharptooth, who has been handling things very well and appears to be able to separate) is also on your side saying that everything is lame and the "MSN Crew" are a pile of hitlers. You use this logic to justify saying that you think that "many" people have a huge problem with it. Let me give you a list of the people who have come on and have joined us to hang out in the last several days:

Briar
Ungatt
Kilkenne
Neobaron
Volkov
Shael
Shadow
Genevieve
Holby
Abby the Rat
Vargarth
Twilight Shadow
The Purple Dragon
Ashyra
Kell
Peace Alliance
Ruddertail
Windhound
++Like 3-4 peoples' girlfriends/other friends


And the list can go on. That's by my count, without counting you or your brother. You are trying to tell me that all of us are one huge clique and do things together in a way that is malicious towards the community? We are in different clans, have different game goals, and can separate the two things quite readily. Newsflash: We are the community. So are you, and you have made the choice to not be a part of this part of it. Don't use your timezone as an excuse because we have something going or can make something all throughout the day. If you don't want to participate, that's your prerogative. If this is a game first, and a community second, or some balance, then excuse me for getting it all wrong. Maybe you should just not log on the forums anymore and play however you can just using the clan forum. It would be easier on your mental state than just panicking nonstop about every little thing that doesn't go your way.

There have been people that choose not to get on MSN with us that we interact with just fine, as well. I like Pac-man and Krowdon, Daryn and Siegemaster, they've all been around the block with us. But they don't come on MSN and that's their choice. We respect your guys' right to not come on here, and can interact through the forums. To say that it is 100% necessary to be on with us and then to say that those that aren't on are horribly hamstrung/disadvantaged is an insulting joke.

I hope you stop making serious posts soon, because you're seriously coming off the bigger jerk here.

I'm arguing about the game, not the community, although the whole MSN thing is an issue. I cannot recall once being invited to, or a huge MSN chat, ever being mentioned, so I wonder why you are having a huge go at me for not joining a discussion that I was not invited to, or was aware existed. Hence it is a clique, or at least if it s a community, one your are all excluding me from. Which raises several questions, including you seeming to be obsessed that I willingly exclude myself from your convos. Also, as you said several individuals such as Daryn and Krowdon don't engage in MSN convos at all...you and Jon seem to think that all this MSN community stuff should play a large role, but it is already excluding key members of the community, and will continue to exclude future members.

Also, me and Sharp living together is ridiculous reasoning for my views. Me and him agree on several things, read around. This is one thing we happen to agree on, and even then our views are definetly and clearly different...I realize many people seem to prefer the current game/community status.

Know something else? About 90% of them are oldbies, because most of the community atm are oldbies. Which is not good, as we need progression, not regression back into the old ways and habits as you all seem to favour. This should show the community hasn't actually grown at all, older members have just come back. The community here is one of the reasons this game/site is great, but you're making it too close (if that is possible) and making outsiders feel excluded. We need people who can think of ways to make the game progress forward and develop into something better, not people who are just scared of new play styles and shocked that their old way of playing has gone. Adapt, develop, but don't force your views on those who won't accept it.

And yes, this is a game first. If you want a community, surely you can all have your MSN convo? This was created as a promisance game, not a social centre. It's cool if you want to get friendly with people, but don't let the lines blur. The community exists because of and (in most cases) to play the game. You just seem to have this strange idea that the game is some side-thought and should be neglected, and that the community is the main centre just because those who don't play stick around.  The forums should augment the game and allow people to get to know their rivals and opponents closer and retain relations with them when they're not playing. It's cool if you want to make some huge MSN convo, but excluding those you don't invite or those who don't have MSN doesn't make it representive of the community as you seem to think so.
--

Anyway, back to the topic, I was reffering to the changes in game, but people seem hung up on the community, which I suppose is related.

Forcing people to use the forums to play the game is bad anyway, all this convuluted other stuff is even worse. If you can't see how this won't isolate people, this conversation is pretty pointless. From the first post made it was obvious everybody is trying to turn me into some kind of monster or something...we can disagree without shouting down each others throats, or at least I used to think.