Inginuity at it's finest

[Shadow]

it takes more to kill a honey bee than it does a mosquito

All they did was burn the wings off, and most insect wings are pretty similar I think. At the very least you would injure other insects.

Very small 3D volume, and it couldn't even get every mosquito in it.

They weren't shooting them then, just demonstrating the targeting.

y idea was more there was a specific area that it fired into, that could be kept free of inflammable materials for the most part..

Risky assumption, in a jungle. Plus the laser becomes less useful if you limit its range like that.

That sounds a little optimistic to me, but meh.

http://www.metta.go.th/tonss/file30-31/Femtosecond%20Laser%20in%20Ophthalmology%5B1%5D.pdf

Surgical lasers currently operating around 150kHz. That one was about average, I saw a range from 60-600kHz.

Note that recharge times are pretty negligible when you are only firing a few photons at a time.

[Gen. Volkov]

All they did was burn the wings off, and most insect wings are pretty similar I think. At the very least you would injure other insects.

Actually insect wings very by a huge degree. They are built out of the same material, scleroproteins, but the way they are built varies hugely. Mosquito wings are some of the smallest and slimmest. A hymenopteran (bees, wasps, and hornets) of the same size would have bigger, wider wings. Much more heat dispersal. Then you add in that mosquitos are generally much smaller than any hymenopteran species, and I think you could kill mosquitos without damaging bees.

They weren't shooting them then, just demonstrating the targeting.

I know, but they had a tough time tracking more than a few at once. In a 3D volume there are going to be hundreds, if not thousands of insects to track.

Risky assumption, in a jungle. Plus the laser becomes less useful if you limit its range like that.

I was thinking in terms of a barrier. As for the jungle... I'm not too worried about inflammable materials there. It's generally too wet.

Surgical lasers currently operating around 150kHz. That one was about average, I saw a range from 60-600kHz.

There is a difference between this laser and surgical lasers. Surgical lasers are putting the minimal amount of energy needed to do what is needed, so that the fewest cells die. Only a few watts of power are being produced. A few watts is not enough to burn the wings off a mosquito. This laser is putting out far more energy. Recharge times are going to be longer, and you still have to add in tracking and aiming.

[Shadow]

Recharge times are going to be longer, and you still have to add in tracking and aiming.

If a fs pulse was used to kil the mosquito in the demo as was implied, then recharge times  << aiming times. They will be negligible because the recharge could happen while it is findinf a new target. A fs pulse contains nanojoules of energy, if that. So the timing it only limited by the speed of aiming.

I was not suggesting that you could kill 150,000 mosquitos a second ^_^. Just that recharge times are not an issue.

and I think you could kill mosquitos without damaging bees.

Perhaps you wouldn't kill them but they would certainly notice it happening. If a large area was covered, you could interfere with foraging. Multiple shots could take larger things down quickly even if it is firing only a hundred times per second easily. Depends if the tracking software stops targeting immediately after firing once.

I know, but they had a tough time tracking more than a few at once. In a 3D volume there are going to be hundreds, if not thousands of insects to track.

I think the idea is "fire and forget." You only need to track one at a time to achieve your aim, and they were doing that just fine.

I was thinking in terms of a barrier. As for the jungle... I'm not too worried about inflammable materials there. It's generally too wet.

A sustained laser will dry things out sooner or later.

[Gen. Volkov]

A sustained laser will dry things out sooner or later.

Maybe, but all that's going to happen is some charring. No sustained fire will start, not in a jungle.

If a fs pulse was used to kil the mosquito in the demo as was implied, then recharge times  << aiming times. They will be negligible because the recharge could happen while it is findinf a new target. A fs pulse contains nanojoules of energy, if that. So the timing it only limited by the speed of aiming.

That really depends on how much energy that laser is putting out. It might be they can fire the pulse, but it takes awhile to reset and fire again. We just don't know enough about their laser to be sure, but I'm betting there is a good reason all their models have the laser firing in a plane, instead of in a big 3D space.

I was not suggesting that you could kill 150,000 mosquitos a second ^_^. Just that recharge times are not an issue.

Right. Again, depends on the laser.

Perhaps you wouldn't kill them but they would certainly notice it happening. If a large area was covered, you could interfere with foraging. Multiple shots could take larger things down quickly even if it is firing only a hundred times per second easily. Depends if the tracking software stops targeting immediately after firing once.

Bees put up with a lot when they are out foraging. I'd be surprised if a momentary discomfort interfered with them much. Multiple shots could take down something if it stays in the area, but if it passes through the plane quicker than a mosquito can, there is only going to be one shot. Mosquitos are much slower than bees.

I think the idea is "fire and forget." You only need to track one at a time to achieve your aim, and they were doing that just fine.

That, in my opinion, is going to let more than a few mosquitos through.

[Genevieve]

Bees put up with a lot when they are out foraging. I'd be surprised if a momentary discomfort interfered with them much.

I wouldn't be doing any pollinating or honey-making for the bastards that shot me with a laser while i was foraging.

[Shadow]

Exactly. Even if it didn't burn their wings off there are hurt feelings to consider. I bet bees object most strongly to being categorized as mosquitoes.

That really depends on how much energy that laser is putting out

Again, fs pulse. Even at high power, that means ~nanojoules. You can recharge that in a capacitor in a tiny fraction of a second even with a normal AA battery.

Maybe, but all that's going to happen is some charring. No sustained fire will start, not in a jungle.

Risky assumption

but if it passes through the plane quicker than a mosquito can,

I don't think the plane idea is viable, simply because it won't hit nearly enough. If this is going to work it has to be a volume, and they'll figure that out quickly when/if they test it.

That, in my opinion, is going to let more than a few mosquitos through.

Why? These bullets travel at the speed of light and aren't bent over short scale. The targeting couldn't be simpler. Point at your target, fire. End of story. With aiming being that simple, you just need to develop motion tracking, which has been researched extensively already.

[Shadow]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science_and_environment/10228989.stm

Seems jungles aren't as wet as all that ^_^

[Gen. Volkov]

I wouldn't be doing any pollinating or honey-making for the bastards that shot me with a laser while i was foraging.

Luckily for us, bees have little in the way of higher brain functions. Spiders do, but bees have two nerve cords that serve to carry out some basic functions and not much else. They are pretty amazing for what they are, but ideas like revenge don't exist in bee brains.

Again, fs pulse. Even at high power, that means ~nanojoules. You can recharge that in a capacitor in a tiny fraction of a second even with a normal AA battery.

I wasn't saying it's not going to fire fast, but 150,000 times per second is a little unrealistic.

Risky assumption

Not really, not in the areas where mosquitoes are prevalent enough to warrant this sort of defense system. Mosquitoes breed in standing pools of water. An area of the jungle dry enough to start a fire is not going to have a heck of a lot of mosquitoes. Oh, and as for the Amazon, that's probably somewhat the fault of humanity. We've begun changing world weather patterns.

I don't think the plane idea is viable, simply because it won't hit nearly enough. If this is going to work it has to be a volume, and they'll figure that out quickly when/if they test it.

I just don't think there is a cheap way to track, aim, and fire in a large 3D space. With enough processing power, it could be done, but that prices it well out of the range of the people who need it most.

Why? These bullets travel at the speed of light and aren't bent over short scale. The targeting couldn't be simpler. Point at your target, fire. End of story. With aiming being that simple, you just need to develop motion tracking, which has been researched extensively already.

Insects in flight are constantly in motion. They are very small as well, and this makes them very difficult to track. Add to that the necessity of recognizing what kind of insect, and you have an even bigger tracking problem. They seem to have solved that issue for working in small volumes or a plane. But working in a large 3D volume is going to require so many lasers and so much processing power, that it will not be feasible to go out and set it up in the jungle somewhere. And you would still let mosquitoes through. It's a simple matter of numbers, the lasers can fire only so fast, and there will be MILLIONS of insects, constantly moving in and out of the range of the tracking softwares detection. The lasers can kill anything they are aimed at, but they can only kill one thing at a time. Which means while you are busy killing one mosquito, 5 others slip through before the laser can fire again, and I don't care how many times a second the laser fires.