Terrorism. True or BS?

[Sevz]

I think Shadow has more interest in proving us wrong on a personal level than debating his honest thoughts.

Everything I have said is based on science and logic. How is any of what I have said about this personal or dishonest?

I'd rather be proven wrong than agree about something

You answered it yourself. You would prefer disagree with something until it's proven rather than approach any manner open minded.
Please stay on topic about invisible terrorists.
*Sevz
Mod Duties*
~~~~~~~~~~~~
We already know what happened in a fabricated manner. If you seriously believe that invisible terrorists destroyed the towers that's a cool imagination. Also, somehting Shadow said earlier, the bombs in the building. If terrorists had bombs pre-placed. Why do the whole Hi-Jacking thing?

Sevz, it is not OK to mock staff by adding "Mod duties" to your posts. This is your first and only warning on this matter.
Holby, modding

[Shadow]

You would prefer disagree with something until it's proven rather than approach any manner open minded.

No no. I will disagree about a statement that has been offered without any concrete proof when it is far more likely that the opposite is true based on what is known at the time. You have offered nothing but conjecture. This is why I disagree. My question was how was I making this in any way personal?

I have an open mind, but not to conjecture. If you show me something concrete, I will change my mind. That is what it means to have an open mind. Having an open mind does not mean blindly accepting every conspiracy theory there is.

What's this about invisible terrorists?

If terrorists had bombs pre-placed. Why do the whole Hi-Jacking thing?

gee, this conspiracy is rapidly getting more complicated isn't it? ^_^ You're the one who suggested that there was thermate already in the building that did the actual demolition, so now you are just poking holes in your own theory.

For the record, I used to believe this twin tower conspiracy thing. Over the years since it has happened, I have come to the conclusion that it is nonsense based on infomation I hear as it arises. You have shown nothing yet that I haven't heard before.


And don't start with this mod mocking crap, if you insist on turning this into another insult Shadow/insult staff thread you'll just get gagged again. You've had enough warnings already, you won't get another.

Shadow
Mod Duties

[Sevz]

Sevz, it is not OK to mock staff by adding "Mod duties" to your posts. This is your first and only warning on this matter.
Holby, modding
[/quote]

Your a liar Holby, this is neither my first or only warning for doing it.

No probs Bosses. Please stay on topic

*Sevz
Wannabe Mod Duties*

In which case, you should have listened rather than continue to belittle staff. This is your third indiscretion within a matter of hours. 24 hour gag. Note the "No Probs Bosses" was a later addition to your original post.
Holby, modding.

[Gen. Volkov]

OK... this is some serious BS. What Juska said in response the first time was essentially correct. The two towers were hit by two jet airliners weighing several hundred tons apiece carrying thousands of pounds of jet fuel. The impacts hugely strained the towers and subsequent breakup of the planes as they moved through the buildings blasted all the fire insulation off the steel beams of the two towers. The burning jet fuel was more than hot enough to weaken the steel of the buildings, it essentially removed the tempering, which is what makes steel so strong. This weakened steel started collapsing and once the thousands of tons of steel in the upper floors of the building started falling, nothing in the world was going to stop the total collapse of those buildings. As the towers fell, hundreds of tons of burning debris impacted the buildings around them, causing partial and total collapses in several, including Building 7, which had a huge gouge taken out of the wall facing where the towers once stood. The debris also started many fires in building 7, which eventually reached it's stores of diesel fuel, allowing the fires to burn for hours. These fires weakened the steel in certain sections of the building, which due to Building 7's construction caused a total collapse when they failed.

As for thermite, or thermate, which is just a variation of thermite, it is not used in the explosive demolitions industry. In explosive demolitions, the idea is to cut the steel using the shockwave of high explosive, thus allowing you to make the building fall where you want. Thermite and thermate are much harder to control and while they can cut steel, they do so by burning over a period of time, so they are affected by gravity.

[EDIT] I would make a mega-post refuting everything Sevz has said, but I don't have the time or inclination to do so. Mostly because I've already done so, at another site. Suffice to say, pretty much everything Sevz has said has been categorically disproven by a variety of people.

[Juska]

So I watched the first part of the movie, things that struck me. First off, the authors of this movie do not believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, I on the other hand do, which strikes a lot of their argument null and void to me. The entire notion that Jesus Christ is just another sun god is pretty hard to believe, although some of their comparisons could make sense. God reveals himself to man through nature, if there are lots of astrological signs correlating to Jesus Christ that's because God is revealing to man in nature things about The Christ. They reference Christmas and Dec. 25th a lot, which is funny because their is nothing biblical about Christmas, in fact every Christian knows(or should know) that Christmas is a pagan holiday the church turned into a Christian holiday in order to more easily assimilate pagans into Christianity.

No surprise that the Egyptians had a code of laws similar to the Ten Commandments, as the Ten Commandments or moral law is the same law that is naturally on the hearts of every man.

They referenced the age of the earth and poked fun at the man who said the earth is only 12,000 years old, I'd agree that man, my brother in Christ, is mistaken. The earth is very much older than 12,000 years, how else could dinosaurs exist? What do we do with all the scientific evidence that there are things millions of years old? The "days" in Genesis are not literal 24 hour days, God has no need for time, time is something created for humans only.

The video references symbols greatly, especially the cross, there is no biblical support for the creation or use of images in Christian Worship, and actually "Thou shalt create no graven images" does in my opinion extend to also created images of Christ and using those in worship.

There was an entire divide of the church in the 5th century over Iconic (image users) and non-iconic Christians.

In addition, why are there Christ figures in other religions that do not correspond to new "ages"? And why are their not new sun gods being created? If anything the religions prior to Christ's coming were false religions carrying bits of truth, this world is not fully given up by God, there is truth to found everywhere, even in false religions. Could it be that Christianity is the last religion in this "sun god mold" because it is in actuality the true religion? Islam does not follow the same story as Christianity, even though it came afterward, Muhammad is a prophet even in Islam, not the Son of God.

The video also makes mention of a lack of reference to Jesus by sited historians (like I said earlier they discount the Bible, for example the book of Luke which is a history of Jesus Christ), well Jesus is just a name and means very little, it is Christ that matters.

There is a lot wrong with the first part of this video, but I do agree that once the church was politicized it was used for earthly gain, the church was never meant to be a political body, something that is apparent because Jesus Christ did not come to liberate the Jews, but to save mankind from their sin. Saving someone from their sin has nothing to do with politics.

I won't deny religion is used to manipulate people, but true Christianity is very different from "religion" and true Christianity does not manipulate.  

[Gen. Volkov]

Just so you know, there were no bodies, or any evidence whatsoever of the planes that crashed in Pennsylvania or the Penagon, and the FBI sealed off both areas until they could cover it up. This is extremely unlikely to not have found one peice of steel or an arm; there's basically no evidence of either of those planes.

That's, quite simply, not true. The first responders in both places found pieces of the aircraft everywhere, as well as pieces of human bodies. There were no intact bodies left, that is true, but that was because they had been torn to bits by hitting the ground, and a heavily fortified concrete building at something close to the speed of sound. If you look at some of the early pictures from the Pentagon crash site, you can see pieces of the aircraft, including a jet engine. There is plenty of evidence.

I have had enough of this conspiracy theory BS. 9/11 was not an inside job. Was it used by the political leaders of the time to achieve certain goals? Of course it was, but that doesn't mean those political leaders also did it. As I said earlier, to successfully pull off a fake terrorist attack like 9/11, you would need, literally, thousands of people. Are we really to believe ALL of them have kept quiet?

[Genevieve]

Everyone should listen to Volkov because he's the smartest.

Please take this comment with complete seriousness, he really is the only one making a good argument.
Wolf Snare and Sevz are taking conspiracy theories as gospel, the way that Juska takes gospel, that is, while he goes off on an irrelevant and contradictary jesus rant, and Shadow is letting his constant need to discredit everything certain people say get in the way of making his own solid argument.

[Death]

Yeah there are terrorists, I don't think anyone is going to deny that and I also am not going to read this topic. Occasionally people are slapped with the terrorist label because a lot of people don't know what it actually means. Seems like now it's just a word that means "people who want to kill you".

[Gen. Volkov]

Everyone should listen to Volkov because he's the smartest.

Aw, thanks.

[Alazar is Back]

I am not going to take either side of this debate, because I am open minded enough to know that just about anything is possible. I don't know what the answer is, but can anyone prove that terrorists ARE actually behind this? Where is that proof at?

[Gen. Volkov]

I am not going to take either side of this debate, because I am open minded enough to know that just about anything is possible. I don't know what the answer is, but can anyone prove that terrorists ARE actually behind this? Where is that proof at?

Other than the 19 people identified by the FBI, and spotted in the airports by video surveillance, and then placed on the aircraft by the tickets in the airlines system, the calls from the aircraft themselves while the hijackings were taking place, the announcement by Al-Qaeda that they did it and the confessions of both Zacarias Moussaoui and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed? You mean aside from all that, is there any proof?

[Death]

Please don't go into a rant about the Zionist conspiracy next Alazar.

[Juska]

Gen., can you post links to pictures of crash sites with debris, terrorist confessions, passenger logs?

Not that I won't take you on your word, I just want to see real evidence, the video made a strong case against and I want to form an opinion I can defend.

And Genevieve I was just stating what is wrong with the first part of the video, please forgive me for ranting.

[Gen. Volkov]

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/ats/pentagon757/planeparts-1.jpg

Just search for "Pentagon crash site photos". There are a lot of conspiracy sites that pop up, but there are also a lot of pictures of all the aircraft debris found in and around the Pentagon.

http://stj911.org/evidence/docs/P200059_1.jpg

Pennsylvania crash site. You can see the giant hole in the ground made by an aircraft weighing several hundred tons hitting the ground at near the speed of sound. You can also see all the little tiny pieces of debris created when the plane hit at that speed.

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/photos/padebris3.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/photos/paground3.html

More debris found at crash site.

As for Moussaoui, it appears he entered guilty pleas in the trial, and then later requested a retraction of what he said, and a new trial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui#Court_statements

As for the hijackers, this Wikipedia page is well sourced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks

As for Khalid though, he confessed to planning the entire 9/11 operation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6452573.stm

I can't link you to the passenger logs, as I don't think they've been released to the public, but I can link you to several news articles.

http://www.boston.com/news/packages/underattack/news/planes_reconstruction.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20020921045555/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/primetime_flightattendants_020718.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/07/23/FLIGHTS.TMP

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/14/lkl.00.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/17/attack/main519033.shtml

http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011028flt93mainstoryp7.asp

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a937glick

http://files.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/flight93transcript.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_9/11_Commission_Report

http://911myths.com/images/e/ef/Team5_Box62_AliasesAndIDs-FBIIDsHijackers-2.pdf

Sorry for all the links, but there were 4 flights, and I wanted to give as much info as possible. I would also suggest reading the 9/11 Commission Report.

[Sevz]

After reading that statement it looks like more planted evidence. From the narrators point of view the dude is scum.

He denied charges of conspiracy to murder United States employees and destroy property. <---- why'd he deny that?