Congratulations America

[Peace Alliance]

First Obama, now universal healthcare. You guys are startin to get it!

[Naltaca]

Hey guys, I'm twelve, what's this?

[Gen. Volkov]

It's not universal Ollie. In fact, it's still leaving 20 million Americans without healthcare coverage. It's also probably going to drive up costs, instead of lowering them. I am not happy with this bill. I would have been fine with actual universal healthcare, but this bloated hybrid monster, filled with kickbacks and pork-barrel spending is not universal healthcare.

[Ungatt Trunn II]

Communism.

[Shadow]

Wow

Zomg teh commies r coming, run for your life!

Anyone who says that having one aspect of your life socialized = communism a) as no understanding of communism and b) has no unerstanding of health socialized health care

[Juska]

As soon as this bill is passed into law every America loses a little of their freedom, hoorah!

This bill was passed so Pelosi and Obama could save face in the November elections, it's going to raise our deficit and lower the quality of care. Hopefully the 37 state governments who are suing the Fed on the grounds the bill is unconstitutional can get something done.

[Peace Alliance]

Juska, Obama was elected on the promise that he would pass a health care bill, i think that is their motivation, not saving face.

[Juska]

Obama was elected on he basis he would bring change, they choose health care as what they wanted to change. If this plan had been campaigned on he wouldn't have been elected, as 55% of Americans opposed it.

They wanted this bill passed in 2009 and got shut down, they needed to pass something or they would have nothing to campaign on in November, no matter what they were going to pass a bill, even if it sucked and really didn't do anything. Have you listened to Pelosi? We will have the votes was all she was saying, because it didn't matter they would do whatever it took, because without something concrete to show after having majorities in both houses and the having the white house they were going to get raped come November.

Majorities in both houses of congress and a Democratic President and they almost didn't even get their #1 piece of legislation through, if they hadn't had gotten anything passed that's pretty obviously failure.

The Dems are going to parade this around as real change in America, look at what we are doing, we are getting real things done re-elect us so we can ruin, sorry I mean change, America even more.

They need a poster child, their jobs bill has failed miserably and health care's beginning effects won't go into effect until 6 months from now and the fallout from job loses and quality cuts won't be evident come November, barely a month after the bill is fully in effect. They can parade it about saying they have given 30+ million Americans health coverage and the real effects of this disaster won't be felt.

[Genevieve]

As soon as this bill is passed into law every America loses a little of their freedom, hoorah!

This statement disgusts me. People have lived under dictatorships, in persecuted minorities and in poverty, and a step towards universal healthcare threatens your freedom?

I can't really say anything about this topic. The Americans in here are too thick and insular to have any idea.

[Ungatt Trunn II]

I can't really say anything about this topic. The Americans in here are too thick and insular to have any idea.

Any nation's people are like that.

[Genevieve]

Then why are there people here from outside America talking about this?

[Juska]

As soon as this bill is passed into law every America loses a little of their freedom, hoorah!

This statement disgusts me. People have lived under dictatorships, in persecuted minorities and in poverty, and a step towards universal healthcare threatens your freedom?

I can't really say anything about this topic. The Americans in here are too thick and insular to have any idea.

It not only threatens, it diminishes!

We are now being forced to have health insurance! Forced! Don't you see what a slap to freedom that is? Because I am human and a citizen of the United States I am now forced to have health insurance, whether I want it or not!

They are taking my money and giving it to someone else! If I want to support someone who cannot afford their healthcare costs then let me give them my money myself! Let me make the decision because it is my decision to make!

If they can force me to have heath insurance what else can they force me to do?

If I don't have an income I don't need to pay taxes, if I don't have a car I don't need car insurance, if I don't want to shower I don't have to shower, but because I am alive I need to have health insurance there is no way not to!

Oh yes, I can be fined! Fined like I'm a criminal because I don't want health insurance for myself! As long I, or all the businesses who will now need to pay fines for not covering their employees because that's not retarding job growth at all, can pay.

You want to know how to get people health care?

1. You lower health care costs (through fair competition and protection from lawsuits)
2. You increase your populations' wealth
3. You promote personal, individual altruism

You do not take away my freedom of choice.

[Peace Alliance]

If I don't have an income I don't need to pay taxes, if I don't have a car I don't need car insurance, if I don't want to shower I don't have to shower, but because I am alive I need to have health insurance there is no way not to!

Oh yes, I can be fined! Fined like I'm a criminal because I don't want health insurance for myself! As long I, or all the businesses who will now need to pay fines for not covering their employees because that's not retarding job growth at all, can pay.

Hey, look at it this way, as soon as you have no health you won't have to have health insurance (... you'll be dead)
As for jobs, we have less unemployment in Canada, and our businesses are required to do a lot more then provide health insurance.

1. You lower health care costs (through fair competition and protection from lawsuits)
2. You increase your populations' wealth
3. You promote personal, individual altruism

You do not take away my freedom of choice.

1. Protection from a malpracticing doctor is part of your individual rights. Part of your constitution, thanks in part to the conservative anti-federalists who ensured the amendments that would protect your rights.
2. One great way to increase wealth is to increase wellbeing.
3. wha?





Your freedoms are protected, juska. The American constitution was designed to protect the balance of power. That part of the constitution was far more threatened by George Bushes exploitation of the executive branch then it is from health care

[Juska]

1. We have taken protecting the individual to such an extreme that all it does is penalize doctors.
2. This bill will not increase wealth.
3. A giving spirit, so that people without being forced will naturally be inclined to support their fellow man in times of need.


Actually, there is a way to get health care without having health insurance, it's called having money readily available for medical needs. If I have cash to pay for medical services I'm going to get better treatment at a lower price than I would no matter what health insurance provider I have.  Who would of thought, saving money for bad times.

However, that's not even the point. The point is about freedom of choice, the government has no right to force my decisions.

There are a lot of factors involved in employment rates between different countries, if I was so inclined I could do some research on why Canada has a lower unemployment rate, but you can be certain that they don't have a lower unemployment rate solely because they are required to provide health insurance.

The constitution only matters when people follow it Peace.

Liberty: freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Yeah that's the preamble to the constitution.

On another note, it's rather annoying when citizens of a different country try to tell me when my country is and is not violating my freedoms. Or they go so far to call me thick when I speak out in protection of them. There a large differences between the U.S. and Canada and wherever you are from Genevieve (I'm assuming Canada also?) most notably being the fact that the U.S. is the country that was founded on the principle of Liberty.

Now if you want to discuss how far Liberty can and should extend and understand that people can hold different position on Liberty then great I'm all for it, or if you want to discuss the merits of "universal" health care I'm happy to talk about that to.



P.S. George Bush did a lot to ruin American freedoms as well, like the government takeover and interference in private financial institutions. Please don't make the assumption that because I am opposed to this health care bill that I am automatically in favor of everything the other party does or did. But we are not discussing George Bush.

[Ungatt Trunn II]

Then why are there people here from outside America talking about this?

There are people IN America who just passed the bill. Stop grouping us all together.