Feedback on changes

[Sharptooh]

I said increase production so as to balance the effect. Reading comprehension.

Sorry misread / skimmed through too quickly because I was in a rush

Although I doubt doing so would balance it enough to convince people to make troop defences, it seriously hampers net production unless your an indy with a lot of food and cash, and even then it's near impossible to do

[Kilkenne]

I figure if you do an increase/decrease enough to give people the option that they'd want to be making troops with it instead of netting with it solely (I mean I guess they could but they'd have a much bigger pile and it'd get sacked a lot more) so that leader players would have a way to defend themselves against indies while also netting. The only real catch is that it's unsustainable net, just like an indy, unless of course they build a massive army, have a ton of huts on a ton of land, and can feast/loot enough to keep the army fed as they run turns, and have more leftover to buy down again, and repeat the process.

I'm just uncomfortable with the idea of piling food up on the market I guess, because if a clan did this for an entire round, in fact it wouldn't have to be a clan, maybe three people playing wolves solo...

You'd basically emp whoever you want at the end of every round so long as you've all been diligent in the amount of food you've socked away and the person you dump all that on at the end has a pulse, goes camps, and buys a ton of net in troops with it at the last second with their pile of trillions of internet redwall dollars.

[Firetooth]

Troop holes are disingenuous to the nature of the game. Giving land to your enemies so they can net is stupid.

Not really. Trying to end every run with enough troops to defend your land as a leaderer is silly as it requires a lot of cash, you are inevitably broken and you have to sell the troops later.

Plenty of the current play style is disingenuous to the nature of the game, like kills being loathed, or the fact nobody gives retaliations for land grabs. Land is a commodity, and unfortunately it's very difficult to protect it so it's more beneficial to both parties if you don't try to make it difficult to gain. That's my view on it, anyway.

[Sharptooh]

I was going to reply to that Kilk but Firetooth pretty much said all of what I was going to so I won't

I will however say that market theft was a good way to stop leaders stockpiling food, and with the recent changes to sack it would have made it viable for indiers to do too

It just seems that the whole 20% (it is 20% right?) losses thing really isn't deterring people from using the market to store networth, whilst you lose some of it in taking it off, it's totally safe networth in that you'll never lose it unless you die (which is nigh on impossible if you an unclanned leaderer)

[Kilkenne]

Basically what I'm trying to say is that if you want to win, stockpile food and do nothing but that. Then you shall be known as the true master of redwall: internet warlords online on the internet.

[Firetooth]

Basically what I'm trying to say is that if you want to win, stockpile food and do nothing but that. Then you shall be known as the true master of redwall: internet warlords online on the internet.

:D

I agree though, stockpiling untouchable marketed food is silly. Even though I'm guilty of doing it myself, I'd have no qualms with seeing it go. Either that, or make market theft viable again.

This would lead to a change in leaderer strategies, though. People would stockpile loyalty for 10-15days, then produce for the rest of the round. Which is kind of how a lot of other promis work, actually.

[Shadow]

What Kilk is saying is that food netting and land passing were not originally intended as part of the game. This was meant as a war game, which involves defense. The fact that you guys are right is a fault in the code, essentially. One that has been here forever, but a fault nonetheless. Same with market storing, an market theft in turn.

[Firetooth]

What Kilk is saying is that food netting and land passing were not originally intended as part of the game. This was meant as a war game, which involves defense. The fact that you guys are right is a fault in the code, essentially. One that has been here forever, but a fault nonetheless. Same with market storing, an market theft in turn.

I concur, at least on the land part. I think food netting has always been a major part of prom, and seeing as RWL was essentially just a slightly edited QMT at the start, food netting must have been there.

Unfortunately, the war aspect doesn't really work with the current code, as you say. It's less beneficial to focus on producing troops and defending your land then producing cash or food. Part of the issue is also that things like land passing are now ingrained into the game. People often ask if I have a hole, I often ask if they have a hole, and I and several others even publicize if we have a hole.

[Kilkenne]

Food netting really only appeared in RWL once Turbo came around, and even then it was only a Turbo thing. As a general rule, when a prom-style game is more active and the players aren't separated by a massive skill-scale (brand new players versus Shadow as far as their netting/strategy capabilities) stockpiling resources becomes bad news bears fairly quickly, just because there's more interest in slapping one another around (and there are more people to slap around).

It's a pretty new development to me. I took a four year hiatus completely and wandered back, last time I'd actually played at all was in 2007, and people were still rolling around with troops on reg, as opposed to piles of food. I understand this isn't new as far as most of you are concerned, especially Fire/Sharptooth who came in '08 ('07?) and those who came after; it was always like that then.

I'm not going to barf nostalgia all over everyone, because frankly, any one of the players who are in the top 15 on reg/turbo would have solo emped themselves back when the game first started (this might or might not be true, I'm still hoping someone has an old version of the 1.01 code saved so I can try this just to see) and smashed everyone into oblivion. But it's because people understand the min/maxing strategies necessary to get to high networths.

[Sharptooh]

As a general rule, when a prom-style game is more active and the players aren't separated by a massive skill-scale (brand new players versus Shadow as far as their netting/strategy capabilities) stockpiling resources becomes bad news bears fairly quickly, just because there's more interest in slapping one another around (and there are more people to slap around).

Then it appears this is something that can't be solved by code changes (at least not easily)

Same with market storing, an market theft in turn.

Market storing is a bit of a fault, but I think that market theft is it's vice / fix, at least more so than 20% losses upon taking something off, maybe that's just me

[Kilkenne]

Then it appears this is something that can't be solved by code changes (at least not easily)

It's not that they're not easy, it's just that the people who have been indoctrinated to this generally appear to find these things acceptable so long as everyone plays by the rules. Check the top leader players' statuses on Reg, it's hilarious.

People just haven't banged on the drum for a while. I'm sure there'll be some kind of upheaval at some point, but really it's just making sure people are aware of how silly some things are.

[Sharptooh]

Check the top leader players' statuses on Reg, it's hilarious.

The worst was mine which told people to break with Rats, none of the other 9 spoke of troop holes of an sort, there were two which forbade sacking

It's not that they're not easy, it's just that the people who have been indoctrinated to this generally appear to find these things acceptable so long as everyone plays by the rules.

Nobody has been indoctrinated Kilk, I agree this isn't what should be happening in game, but for whatever reason over the past few years (however many I do not know) this attitude has been cultivated and in doing so has encouraged different players to stay

I know that I wouldn't have stayed if netting peacefully wouldn't have been possible in REG, likely Firetooth neither, and probably a couple of other  players who have stuck around in recent years.

I can't remember who made it but I remember a while back someone suggested making a war server, I think this might be the best solution, possibly run slightly different code on it, that way you appease both crowds and appeal to a wider audience

[Kilkenne]

I guess though, to those that did stay due to it, I really don't understand the difference between loading a version of promisance on your local box and just farming food every day, and playing like this. It's like everyone treats one another as NPCs. There's very little player interaction, and I'm talking real player interaction, not asking what people can hit one another in so that they don't touch one another's precious troops or food or whatever.

[Firetooth]

Well, in all fairness, reg is quite boring without conflict.

I and several others in the past have suggested a server where you are ranked on kills and net destroyed, not net produced, similar to valhall's old (and now no longer around from what I can see) battle server.

I also think people gets a bit OOT about the whole "sacks are bad, don't use them" kind of statuses...they are a clear threat and save the player time having to destroy net of those who didn't know sacks would receieve retaliation and makes sure people who do sack can't complain when their net is destroyed.

[Sharptooh]

I guess though, to those that did stay due to it, I really don't understand the difference between loading a version of promisance on your local box and just farming food every day, and playing like this. It's like everyone treats one another as NPCs. There's very little player interaction, and I'm talking real player interaction, not asking what people can hit one another in so that they don't touch one another's precious troops or food or whatever.

There is player interaction Kilk, definitely among clan mates and through clan forums as to how maximise produce, teaching new players, and generally just having random conversations about nothing in particular

There's also a fair bit of diplomacy with other clans, infact in most of the rounds before you played I always remember there being wars between two massive 'super clans' who nuke each other until the other wins. Kills and destroying net haven't ceased becoming part of the game either, even when there has usually been peaceful netting throughout the round anybody who doesn't have that net protected can be guaranteed that on the last day it'll get destroyed by someone else inside the top ten

Well, in all fairness, reg is quite boring without conflict.

I'm talking about turbo here not REG, just to clarify

Although I find REG boring even with conflict usually, it just moves so slowly, turn wise, everything wise really . . .