A Bit Of Culture For You Guys... :)

[The Beatles]

 Okay, many of you probably don't know this. Now, in the Second World War, ca. 1942, Hitler's tanks came down from Austria into Hungary. This forced the Hungarian government to lick up to Hitler, or get wiped out, as is, from the face of the Earth. Understandable. Now, most of Hngary's troops later went to the German frontiers, becasue in 1943 things took a bad turn, mainly becasue the US joined. Germany at that point did something rather expectable, yet not too bright, and declared war on the US. Expectable, no? OK. Now, Russia had recovered from the German invasion (Russia was an Ally, remember?), and was a very considerable military power. She was taking over Roumania, and going fast. There was no way Germany was gonna win the war. She was good, very good, but not that good. No way could she keep up with the US and USSR. Laugh. Even the tanks in the Hungarian capital, Budapest, withdrew to the frontiers, taking much of Hungary's armed forces with them. Now then. Hungary, at this point, was very weak. She had a population of ca. 7 million, and an armed forces of approximately 100,000-150,000 men, little equipment, bad organization, fighting with Roumania simultaneously, heavily in debt, on the wrong side, and etc. She was jusst very weak. Now, she was proud too. So, she didn't humbly surrender. (Even Russia in WWI knew better.) So then, what did Hungary do? She just did the most incredibly stupid thing done probably in all of history. No joke. Can anyone at all guess what Hungary did? Porbably no, without looking. I hope I've illustrated the facts, becasue what little Hungary did was with no exaggeration the most colossaly stupid (and proud) thing to do. No one would have thought it. No-one. When people, parties involved, heard it, they laughed. Not even in their wildest dreams woould it have occurred to them that somebody would do something that utterly idiotic. They just laughed and laughed. Some wept, out of laughter. Now then, can you guys guess what little Hungary did in response to being in the terminal stage of losing the war and, perhaps, being exterminated?

Curious,
~The Beatles  

[Wickedclaw]

 I actually, new that, lol. I am in world war II in my high school right now and we are mainly studying D-Day right now.

[General Austin]

 Went Head on?

[The Beatles]

 Um, do you really know? If yes, pray tell.

[General Austin]

 Somebody smart please read this topic. I've gotten really interested now.....

[Wickedclaw]

 I like history, and WW2 is cool. We are now at the whole d-day and trying to assassinate hitler dealy-bob. But I think the best and funniest, part of all of ww2 was the invasion of italy and africa. Gen. Patton and Gen. Montgomery are hillarious.

[The Beatles]

 So, d'you guys wanna know what Hungary did? I'll make a poll.

[Vengerak]

 This forced the Hungarian government to lick up to Hitler, or get wiped out, as is, from the face of the Earth.

PLEASE. The Hungarians were quite happy to renew their old alliance with the Germans. They got large swathes of land for it, too.

in 1943 things took a bad turn, mainly becasue the US joined.

Don't flatter yourslves.  You joined in, like, 1941.

Russia was an Ally, remember?

STALIN? A true friend of the Allies? ?:lol:

Roumania

It was called Rumania then. Its called Romania now. A combination of both?

She was good, very good, but not that good.

This is, in fact, not true. Would you care to be informed as to what tactic it was that REALLY saw the Allies win World War II?

on the wrong side

From a certain point of view.

Even Russia in WWI knew better

Actually, they didn't surrender until their country had actually collapsed & a revolution had begun.

She just did the most incredibly stupid thing done probably in all of history.

That's so far from the truth its painful.

what little Hungary did was with no exaggeration the most colossaly stupid (and proud) thing to do.

No, it wasn't. & Hungary isn't little.

Not even in their wildest dreams woould it have occurred to them that somebody would do something that utterly idiotic.

Yes, it did.

They just laughed and laughed.

Did they (Please see note from Stormclaw). Where are you getting this from?

Now then, can you guys guess what little Hungary did in response to being in the terminal stage of losing the war and, perhaps, being exterminated?

I don't have to guess. I already knew.

Hungary declared war on Germany and the Allies (again). Not because it was brave, not because it was proud. In fact, it could be said that it declared war on Germany for exactly the opposite reasons: that it was cowardly & treacherous.

& indeed, it was. The Reds were right on their doorstep. Anyone who knows much about World War II that the Russians were barbarous, murdering rats, & that with every country they ''liberated'' camne new waves of terror, rape, death & disorder. The East Europeans & the Germans hated the Stalinists, & they were terrified of them. Hungary knew it couldn't hold back the Red tide. So, like Bulgaria & Rumania/Romania, Hungary switched sides, declaring war on Germany in a desperate attemot to save itself from the senseless depravity of the Communists. They knew what fate awaited them if the Reds took over. So they threw in their lot with the Allies. EVERYONE WAS TERRIFIED OF SOVIET RETRIBUTION.

This was by no means an act of bravery. They had nothing against Germany. They thought Hitler was great, because he was holding back Stalin, if nothing else. So did the Austrians, to a far greater extent. Every country in the Axis was quite happy with it. Only when the tide had turned against them did they bottle out.

You need to get your facts straightened out, my friend.

((Note from Stormclaw: Raine, you've been warned before about this. Watch it.))

[The Beatles]

 Vengerak, in starting, I would like to remark that I am Hungarian, and thus have more right to assume ethos than you do. Most of your statements were quite wrong. I will just proceed, and pick them apart.

This forced the Hungarian government to lick up to Hitler, or get wiped out, as is, from the face of the Earth.
PLEASE. The Hungarians were quite happy to renew their old alliance with the Germans. They got large swathes of land for it, too.

Hungarians did not get land from the Germans, they merely reconquered some territory through the honvedseg, and that was later taken. This fact is taught differently in history books in the West, I knwo that. But the truth is, that Hitler's tanks came to the capitol, and that was far from a "friendly" gesture. Please believe I know far more about this than you do. I am, after all, Hungarian, and I also have first-person accounts. My grandfather knew the minister of foreign policy of Hungary during most of WWII.

in 1943 things took a bad turn, mainly becasue the US joined.
Don't flatter yourslves.

I am not even a US citizen. That is a fact.

Russia was an Ally, remember?
STALIN? A true friend of the Allies?  :lol:

I didn't say true friend. I said Russia was an ally, and as such, at war with Hungary.

Roumania
It was called Rumania then. Its called Romania now. Never both.

Many English texts refer to it as "Roumania". Google it, if you like. Hungarians call it "Roma'nia". ' denotes an accent.

She was good, very good, but not that good.
This is, in fact, not true. Would you care to be informed as to what tactic it was that REALLY saw the Allies win World War II?

Are you trying to deny the fact that, up until 1942, the German industry, discipline, and tactics carried the day in almost all conflicts? After 1943-1944, they were outnumbered and outgunned.

on the wrong side
From a certain point of view.

What are you referring to?

Even Russia in WWI knew better
Actually, they didn't surrender until their country had actually collapsed & a revolution had begun.

Did I deny that? But Hungary was also in turmoil, yet they did and incredibly stupid thing.

She just did the most incredibly stupid thing done probably in all of history.
That's so far from the truth its painful.

Read on, whilst I laugh at your above statement. You will soon see what I mean.

what little Hungary did was with no exaggeration the most colossaly stupid (and proud) thing to do.
No, it wasn't. & Hungary isn't little.

Oh, Hungary isn't little, is it? LOL
(Maybe not for a Scot, but the population is barely over 10 million, and land is 96K km^2)

Not even in their wildest dreams woould it have occurred to them that somebody would do something that utterly idiotic.
Yes, it did.

You don't know what you're talking about. Read on.

They just laughed and laughed.
Did they Hell. Where are you getting this from?

Hmmm, this new board lets you swear? Anyways, read on.

Now then, can you guys guess what little Hungary did in response to being in the terminal stage of losing the war and, perhaps, being exterminated?
I don't have to guess. I already knew.

Hungary declared war on Germany. Not because it was brave, not because it was proud. In fact, it could be said that it declared war on Germany for exactly the opposite reasons: that it was cowardly & treacherous.

Were it not for the fact that you don't know much about this, I'd say you were crazy. Attack Germany, Hell.

& indeed, it was. The Reds were right on their doorstep. Anyone who knows much about World War II that the Russians were barbarous, murdering rats, & that with every country they ''liberated'' camne new waves of terror, rape, death & disorder. The East Europeans & the Germans hated the Stalinists, & they were terrified of them. Hungary knew it couldn't hold back the Red tide.

Correct, until here. The Soviets were bigger rats than the Germans, in some respects.

So, like Bulgaria & Rumania/Romania, Hungary switched sides, declaring war on Germany in a desperate attempt to save itself from the senseless depravity of the Communists. They knew what fate awaited them if the Reds took over. So they threw in their lot with the Allies. EVERYONE WAS TERRIFIED OF SOVIET RETRIBUTION.

I don't remember about Bulgaria and R*mania, but that is absolutely not what Hungary did. At least, not then.
Oh yes, what do you mean by Soviet "retribution"? "Invasion" is the word you're looking for.

This was by no means an act of bravery. They had nothing against Germany. They thought Hitler was great, because he was holding back Stalin, if nothing else. So did the Austrians, to a far greater extent. Every country in the Axis was quite happy with it. Only when the tide had turned against them did they bottle out.

You're referring to something which never happened - they did not declare war on Germany. They did declare war on somebody, but not Germany.

You need to get your facts straightened out, my friend.

And the same to you, Raine.



Now I will reveal what Hungary actually did. What she did was simple, and incredibly, utterly foolish.
She declared war on the USA and the USSR.

Yes, you read that right. Pretty darn amazing and crazy, right? Politicians were guffawing in Geneva.

Now, in the case of the US, this was, in hindsight, wise. The US just laughed, but had war status with Hungary, so they had to send aid afterwards.
Declaring war on the USSR was just an artistic touch, may be.

It blows the mind away, does it not?


~The Beatles

[Vengerak]

 I would like to remark that I am Hungarian, and thus have more right to assume ethos than you do.

Why, exactly?

Hungary declared war on Germany on the 21st of January, 1945. No escaping that. & I think that ''Genocide'' would be still more accurate than ''Invasion''.

They retook SOME land. They were GIVEN most land (Primarily in the Vojvadina area.).

Anything that ever referes to Ru/Romania as ''Roumania'' is wrong.

In your not being a US citizen, sure, fair enough. I concede that.

Hungary isn't small. It has a fairly small population, but the country itself is not small. You're probably too used to dealing with countries in the American Continents. As Eurpean nations go, it is a fair size.

The US wouldn't have got a sniff if Hitler had  a.) Continued to hit British airfields, rather than beggining the blitz. b.) Hadn't sanctioned that ridiculous push into the Caucasus & instead taken Moscow. c.) Had refrained from interfering with Field Marshal Rommel's battle strategies & not poured so many troops into Tunisia (Even after the Torch landings, Rommel had the Americans & Montogmery licked. He was smashing them up all over Algeria, & it was only High Command idiotically commanding him back that ruined their chances.). Additionally, it would have been a good idea for Mussolini to actually do something right, & take Malta in 1940 when he had the chance. These are actually little things. Nothing major at all. There are a lot of other things which would require more effort, but would not have been difficult by any stretch of the imagination. Also, when they first decalred war on America things went great for them, because the American's incompetent fleet was getting torpedoed to death all along the Eastern Seaboard in the perversly named ''Happy Time'' of the U-Boats. This actually IMPROVED the German situation, because they could finally stop Roosvelt's convoys, which had been neutral before.

The Soviets were most certainly bigger rats than the Germans. Operation Barbarossa saved all of Europe from them. Search around for details of Operation Icebreaker. ''Stalin'' (In fact the sickly, physically misshapen son of a poor shoemaker & a choirboy, as opposed to a ''Man of Steel''.) was a brutal, savage mongrel.

Honestly, I don't care if you're Hungarian or not. I'm Scottish, but there are a lot of people who aren't Scottish who know more about our history than I. By the same token, there are a lot of people who weren't alive during or fought in World War II who know more about it than those who were/did.

Hungary was effectivley at war with them anyway. If had been fighting the USSR for years, & the US indierctly. & it still backstabbed Germany. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. Any responsible President/Prime Minister/Chancellor/Thingy would have done the same, rather than see its people butchered to death by the Communists.

Sorry I couldn't respond in more detail. In closing, though, HELL IS NOT A ''SWEAR WORD'', IT IS A PLACE. & replacing it with ''Heck'' is just childish.

[Vengerak]

 Actually, it may have been December 30, I'm not entirley certain.

In any case, though, the fact remains that they declared war on Germany.

[Aqualis]

The Golden Age of RWL.

This was actually interesting.

[Neobaron]

Silly Raine... always raising hell.

---

He was wrong, too... though I would disagree with Beatles about Hungary's decision to declare war on the US/USSR as being foolish. Who, after all, was winning... and who, after all, was going to have the post war goodies...

Who, after all, had been near conflict from the outset of the Russian Revolution about the government which eventually won out leading Russia...

Point: Hungary soot do gain from getting the obvious beatdown it was undoubtably going to take, hence the politicians' decision... from my point of view.

[Gen. Volkov]

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. Somebody has been reading too much Rudolf Hess.

Though Beatles is not entirely accurate either. The US and Germany had been at war for 2 years already in 1943. They declared war on each other in the days immediately following Pearl Harbor. Funnily enough, due to a mail screwup, Japan's declaration of war didn't get sent to D.C. until well after Pearl Harbor, after in fact, the one from Germany got there. And the "entry" of the US into the war is debatable. Was it '42/'43 when they started the bombing raids? Or maybe the Normandy invasion in '44? In '43 the outcome in Russia was still in the balance in fact. The Russians had the edge after being thoroughly whipped by the Germans in '42, but their edge was not exceptionally big. Again, it wasn't untill "44 and the Battle of Kursk that the tide of war had truly been changed. Course without American help the Russians would never have been able to turn it at all... we were the major supplier of the weapons used to win the war. In Russia we didn't supply the frontline weapons for very long, the Russians took our stuff and made it better or invented their own stuff, but American trucks and Jeeps hauled all their equipment. Britain on the other hand had a very large propartion of its fighting vehicles entirely supplied by the US. But I digress. I'm sure someone will pic me apart for not mentioning this or that, such as Stalingrad or the siege of Moscow, or some other thing, but I don't have the time to really get into it. If you want a long discussion on WW2, message me on AIM.

[Beem]

RanQdom fun facts:

During the war France cemented its turrets facing the German border... Germany went around and conquered, the French were practically helpless...

Hitler was reported to have enjoyed having his companions participate in his own... German Shiza... yes, he liked the poo.

There was only one male that Hitler refereed to as his sweet, was one of his friends, (can't remember name ><)

the Shwashtika (sp?)  is the reverse Hopi sign of peace, and he first saw it at the Church he attended when he was young, he was a choir boy.

Hitler fought during WWI, but was hospitalized at the Surrender.

Hitler loved his dog more than anything, however when he decided to commit suicide toward the end of his tyrannical conquest, he made sure the drugs were lethal by having them tested on his dog.   He also had all the dogs puppies, executed.

More Russians and Polish died during the Holocaust than Jews.

Russians won many battles because the cold was too much for the German soldiers to take.

Hitler was not the one who instituted the idea of creating a master race, it was his fanatical general, who took ideas and ran with them.

Most tyrannical conquests are headed by a man short in stature, coincidence? I think not... do not trust the short ones.