How underhanded can people be?

[wolf bite]

I suppose people will need to see the difficulty the clan was having. When you have so many vets, there are not many followers. But at least there was a respectable group, ... and Sevz. Do I really need to go into details? We were stuck with him and it was a lot of work. He was never given management abilities, he found a way around it.

When no one in the Corsair Clan was watching, their leader would change to set Rapscallion to allied and send aid to Sevz. Sevz would then put stuff on the market for her to buy. By doing this they were able to keep aiding and trading with no way to stop it. Even when we noticed them doing it, they will not stop. There is no way to keep him from aiding the other clan, as he is posting in our forums his intent for our downfall.

People's like for her should not be confused with her actions.


Wolf Bite

[The Lady Shael]

Personally, I don't really see this as a breach of the rules or code abuse. Sevz is definitely a traitor, no doubt about that. In Gen's case, it just seems like she's doing what's best for her clan (in which most of the members don't really know what's going on anyway). It's a dirty tactic, but those are common in this game. The previous issue with signing up and sending stats to opponents was a bigger issue to me, more of an exploitation of the forced clan system. This isn't really an exploitation, it's a workaround. It's the clan leader's decision to set opponents to war, it's not part of the theme rules. If we had made it so that clans were NOT allowed to ally with each other or send each other aid, then I would have a huge problem with this.

It's dishonorable, but not against the rules.


Also having Sevz was an effective balance to the forced clan line-up, imo. Rapscallion without a doubt got the most veteran players, and most active players (just look at the scores list). If you didn't have Sevz in your clan, there would be no challenge for you guys.

[Etendue]

Sevz may be a traitor, but at least now we have to work for first place. Without him, we wouldn't have had much of a challenge. I see it as a betrayal, but also as a player initiated rebalancing of the teams. Rapscallion had too many good players anyway (I'm looking at you, wolf bite, volkov).


Plus, I can't believe we didn't see it until now. It's really quite funny in an absurd and annoying sort of way.

[Neobaron]

Plus, I can't believe we didn't see it until now. It's really quite funny in an absurd and annoying sort of way.

Oh the irony.

I noticed something was up about 2 weeks ago and laid out 2 scenarios.

This was one of them. Both were willingly disregarded.

---

Now late for work. Will respond later. -_-

[Kilkenne]

Can someone give like a few sentence explanation of exactly what happened? I've read this thread twice now and don't know what's going on other than a bit from Shael's post.

[Firetooth]

Honestly, Sevz should not be allowed to play these rounds. If he's landed in a clan he doesn't like, he betrays them or finds a way to leave them. This is at least the second time. It sucks to have somebody like that in your clan. I agree with WB, if people can't paly these rounds as they are meant to be played, there isn't any point to them.

[Sharptooh]

Wolf bite I really don't see why you're kicking up such a fuss over this, you're clan has almost every vet in turbo, I mean come on let's count

Rapscallion (12 active members):
-Volkov
-Yellow Eyes
-Castle (obviously someone who know's what they're doing, I'm not sure who they are though)
-Simplicity (ditto)
-Blue eyes (ditto)
-Wolf Bite
-Land farm KILLER (ditto)
-Kyle (ditto)

Marlfox (10 active members):
-Vargath
-TS
-Me

Corsair (6 active members):
-Genevieve
-Dove From Above (again ditto)
and I'm not counting Firetooth because I think he he only ran turns about once at the start of the round

Flitchaye (6 active members):
-V for Vendetta
and
-Dot both look like they know what they're doing, Revelation too

From my point of view, all the other clans were pretty much dead in the water from the beginning considering your player base, I mean we just managed to get a better storehouse than you, but most of it was lost because about 3-4 people in our clan didn't have sufficient enough defences / didn't aid the net away soon enough before it was destroyed

Corsair and Flitchaye had it off even worse than us, and I think when genevieve realised there was no way they were going to outpace Rapscallion on their own, she turned to Diplomacy, the only other tool at her disposal to give her clan any chance in hell that they were going to make a decent finish

Besides I fail to see how having one person in your entire clan aid net away is worse than having about 2 people that never put anything in, and then about 3-4 (the two included) who just wasted the net

I also don't agree with your claim that we shouldn't run a round like this again until we have a more mature player base, it's pretty inevitable that there will always be newer players in the game (or unfortunately people like sevz), not that I'm saying all newer players will be bad, far from it, I've met a lot of great newer players this round who I really hope stick on to the next round.

Can someone give like a few sentence explanation of exactly what happened? I've read this thread twice now and don't know what's going on other than a bit from Shael's post.

As far as I can see, genevieve aided some stuff to sevz when no one was looking, and then he sold her a ton of stuff on the market at really cheap prices (I could be wrong though, I agree, no one's really made it that clear yet)

[Firetooth]

The fact rapscallion have the best lineup doesn't excuse this. ::)

[Sharptooh]

The fact rapscallion have the best lineup doesn't excuse this. ::)

I think it does

Honestly look at that lineup, how is any of the other clans supposed to win without using some kind of diplomacy? You'd have to be some kind of Uber player who calculated their runs so they used turns 100% effectively and started running exactly when their stored turns were maxed out . . .

Besides as I've already said, how is someone aiding some net away over the market worse than people losing networth that they didn't earn through not putting up a decent defence / wasting it on attack people?

[wolf bite]

In a nut shell:

The staff did not foresee any member using the market to make transfers to the clan's enemy. It was left in, call it a "flaw", but not a "bug or abuse".

One clan was lucky to have the better draw of players. To notably name:
Sevz
windy
Yellow eyes
Neo
General Volk
Blue eyes
Ruddertail
wolf bite

We by majority vote put Volk in leadership. When Sevz's ranting could not take control of this line up of vets, he turned against the clan to try to bring its down fall. There is no "boot him out" button in this round. We cannot stop him from keep using the flaw. Other clan's are helping him.

Agreed we got the better draw of players, but that is the luck and should make the other clans have a big award if they could honorably take us down. We expected the other clans to all join against us as 3 against one, that would have been a battle! Their lack of getting that together does not excuse what they did.

But to be stuck with someone sending our assets to the enemy because of revenge of not making him leader, outrageous.


Wolf Bite

[Shadow]

The difference is in intention ^_^

The forced clan round has flaws with poor randomization. This is because we have a small player base and there is a statistically large chance of an imbalanced distribution of talent, but there is nothing malicious about this.

When someone sets out to destroy their clan because they cannot have their way and decide to have a temper tantrum, then there is malicious intent. When people lose net to poor defenses, that was a mistake, but it was not a malicious one. The distinction make no difference practically, but it is important nonetheless.

[Sharptooh]

Agreed we got the better draw of players, but that is the luck and should make the other clans have a big award if they could honorably take us down. We expected the other clans to all join against us as 3 against one, that would have been a battle! Their lack of getting that together does not excuse what they did.

An alliance was never going to happen, there were a few players in my clan were bent on killing members of the other clans, allying with them to take down a 'bigger threat' wouldn't have gone down well, I'm sure the same is true of the other clans too.

and besides it would have been kind of like a company selling out, you only do it if you know you're going to fail, as I've already said we (just) managed to outpace you, a win looked like it *might* have been on the cards

Granted I feel slightly sorry for you, if only because you got stuck with sevz and he had (as Shadow put it so well) a temper tantrum, let's be fair, if that didn't happen you would have even more easily won this round

[wolf bite]

I new there was negotiations with other clans we had, I was against it. Win or lose, the battle of 3 against the clan of vets would have been monumental.

I would rather lose in a blood fight than win based solely on the trader from another clan.


Wolf Bite

[Gen. Volkov]

If you had not given him control of war settings and kept everyone at war he could not have aided. I don't disagree that it was a dirty move, but it is something that could (should) have been anticipated and blocked.

We didn't give him control of war settings. He did it through the market.

This was one of them. Both were willingly disregarded.

Don't be such a Cassandra Neo. I listened to everything you had to say.

[Twilight Shadow]

Hi guys I am back from my gag sorry about that. Explaination and apology under my gag topic.

So where are we...oh yes.

Sevah and Gen are trading. Gen did make up more net than she received so she has right to do what she wants, in my understanding. Second, she wants to have her clan win; yes she may be playing dirty compared to want you think an honorable warlord would do but with such short time thats one way to try and win. Yes there may be better options in your eyes but she was trying to catch up a fast way and damage your team a bit.

Sevah yes he could trade over the markets. But I believe in the end Gen got the better deal yes but for how many "active vets" were in the clan she had to do what she need. Sevah well is Sevah. He plays the way he wants. In my point of view, he makes the game or round have a little bit of a spark or flame for battles. I like Sevah even though I know some of you don't. But it is just another challenge part in the round like we said earlier about have newbs in the clans you guys had too many leadership qualities(I think is the right word here) or leaders that prefer to lead a clan rather sit on the bench and being directed what to do.

Technically in the beginning of the round I traded with Shadow once my food for some of his rats...yes we both I am guess switched ourselves to allys to switch but it was a fair trade. My point would be you play to win, if its dirty or foul play in others eyes. The person doing it sees it probably yes not the way the game is suppose to play but they are being competitive and strategic for the good of their clan.

-TS