Warlord Honor

[The Lady Shael]

Do you believe there is such a thing as "Warlord Honor"? What values can characteristics make an honorable warlord? Do you think it is possible to be honorable but aggressive?

[wolf bite]

Remembers the old days where over 5 attacks was an act of war. Scraping land was very hard. Interested how people respond this.


Wolf Bite

[Shadow]

I think honour has more to do with how you conduct yourself with allies than enemies. Honour and loyalty are more or less synonymous as far as I am concerned.

[The Lady Shael]

To give some of the newbies some insight into what wolf is talking about...

One of the very first clans (it probably was the first) in RWL was Delor Independent Forces (DI), founded by Stormclaw (his account was Sons of Delor (#3)). DI had a very extensive list of Clan Rules, emphasizing the value of "honor". The only rule I remember was that no one in the clan was allowed to attack another player more than three times in one day. Of course we were all noobs back then, so we followed this rule religiously (and still did better than most players...).

That is an extremely strict rule by today's standards, but DI was respected for their values and skill.

Sidenote: If you are curious to see what kind of messages were sent in the very first era of RWL (Oct 2002-Jan 2003), click here.

edit: some more

[Neobaron]

Remembers the old days where over 5 attacks was an act of war. Scraping land was very hard. Interested how people respond this.


Wolf Bite

This. This so hard.

The guy who got me into this (Holby) told me to never attack someone over 5 times in a day as it was rude, and to never cripple someone without reason (paraphrasing).

Times change and rules change as games mature and individuals take advantage of strict adherence to certain things by simply breaking them, which starts a domino effect. Same as in the real world.

Today I don't think theres enough fresh blood or polarized vets to really define honor as it exists in RWL anymore.

Used to you had your factions and it was easily distinguishable what kind of dealings you were going to have based on the roster. If Josh and Snare were clanned, for example, shenanigans were afoot. Same for Kilk and Ereptor. Especially Ereptor. I ran BA for a while and had several bouts of fighting/fun with Juska et al.

Now it's spam crews, Sevz vs Shadow, and Redwall: An Economic Simulator. :P

---

There are no more rules, and thus an honorable warlord cannot be defined, as anything that would function as an honor code has been cast aside, and anyone that would attempt to once again impose rules is ignored or shunned for taking the game too seriously.

And I tend to disagree with the notion that interpersonal relations have anything to do with honor. Thats diplomacy.

How you treat a foe in the field is how your character - your honor - is defined.
How you treat him at the table is how your image - your dignity - is defined.
These things are seperate and cannot be intertwined as they have entirely different applications.

[wolf bite]

WOW, so wise and thoughtful.

Besides what is considered a fair attack now a days, I have then and still today follow my own set of rules.

If someone is aggressively holding emperor, no warning is needed, they should be on constant alert.
Never do anything to damage someone when all I want is land.
Never take someone lower than the average land for their rank.
When I feel unfairly attacked, I draw my sword and give them a written chance for explanation before using it.
If attacked again, or the explanation is not satisfactory (ie: "What are you going to do about it?"), I still normally send a "Grrrr" to give them a chance to pull out their shield.
If a fair one on one fight, I refuse to take any aid.
I will offer all enemies the option for a truce back to normal play.
Never take part in a kill unless the target themselves did a kill with no cause.

Those are my rules. Depending whether players are to my side or on the other side, opinion of my honor can be debated.


Wolf Bite

[Kyrolin Zenyar]

...  Never take part in a kill unless the target themselves did a kill with no cause.

Now in a clan war, things are different.

[Neobaron]

I wouldn't say so Kyrolin... killing a guy was at one point viewed as a very, very bad thing... even if you were at war.

It used to be a big deal whenever someone was killed. Posts on the forum, revenge runs, etc. Killing a warlord ended a war, it didn't start one.

Last turbo round, the first things that caught my eyes were 2 bodies just lying in the scores page, and there wasn't even an ego boost thread on the turbo forum.

[Neobaron]

Actually, to illustrate this I have an example;

The first time BAº was ever in a war, we were allied with woof, Blades, and a couple minor groups. It was against Juska and friends. I don't remember the alliance or the clan name...

Anyways, it was really, really close all the way through, and we were on the edge of losing.

One night about 4am I get a call. It's the police. Actually it was Wolf Bite scaring the heck out of me by pretending to be the police, but he was calling me long distance after having spoken to Holby.

Juska was dead. The war was over. We won.

That was the only kill run I have ever participated in that felt justified. They had been hitting us very, very hard and I think I was in double digits for land once, and the war had gone on FOREVER with all the intrigue and details that used to accompany clan wars here. I worked sooooo hard in getting the alliance together with TJ, who was waffling for some reason, and Volkov, who wasn't sure we'd be capable of finishing and didn't want to take a hit himself for being on the wrong side.

Anyways, back on topic, at one point, killing a guy was worth a 4am IRL phone call.

[Kyrolin Zenyar]

Hehe.  That is cool.  However, speaking as the head of the only clan I see who has a kill in reg, it actually kept the war going longer...

[wolf bite]

Yup. I am rather sure I was not part of the kill run, however a kill was big enough to start calling very long distance.


Wolf Bite

[Neobaron]

I don't think you could on account of admin wolf, but that might have come after. I think that particular example is from 2004 or early 2005.

[wolf bite]

Oh, was it? I recall the calling you part. If I was the admin then, and most likely was, it would have only been one button to nuke someone.  Evil laugh


Wolf Bite

[Juska]

Good topic Shael.

In answer to this I guess I'll state what I respect in a player. You guys can debate whether or not it's similar to honor.

I respect players who defend their land.
I respect players who keep their word.
I respect players who can achieve upon their own merit.
I respect players who understand the weight of their actions and accept the consequences of them.
I respect players who understand the value of diplomacy.
I respect players who look up on the score list when attacking before looking down.

[Kyrolin Zenyar]

Agreed!  I believe that is very good.