admin power abuse

[lonewolf1817]

im restarting this topic in general because my post really didnt pertain to the thread. what shadow did was a abuse of admin power. Shadow your a awsome player, and a awsome admin but you shouldnbt be both its not eithical, and ur recent banning made this abundently clear. i would preffer if no nah say-ers chimed in due to the fact that ur just plan wrong. its not exceptble behavior of a admin period.

[Peace Alliance]

1. Gaggin Sevs from the forum gives Shadow no competitive edge ingame. The fact that Shadow is a player and a mod is irrelevant. In fact, if none of our mods could play we would lose half our playerbase...

2. The gag was entirely appropriate. Sevs was given more then enough warnings.  I don't have time to watch every topic on the forums, but when gags happen i retroactively moderate the topics in question, and in this case I would have gagged Sevs myself.

3. Shadow has never made personal attacks. That's the rule Sevs broke. On these forums we are allowed to ask pointed questions, we are allowed to make in-game accusations, we are allowed to challenge other players claims - but we are not allowed to make personal attacks.

That pretty much concludes this argument.

[lonewolf1817]

no its still a abuse of admin power. if a admin of the game gets into a descrepency with a player in teh game he dose not have the right to gag the account due to several factors.
1. colflict of interest
2. his abilit to make rational mature admin choices have been swayed by the fact he was invested into one side of the argument.

weather or not the gag was the right desiction is irrelevent it was the fact it was administered in a unprofessional manner.

[Juska]

Shadow blatantly abused his power as a moderator to gag Sevz.

Telling someone you cry daily is apparently grounds for a three day gag? Sevz really didn't say anything offensive, all he did was renege on an earlier statement.  Which really is nothing to be surprised about, we all know Sevz will do anything to win here and doesn't really care how what he says and what he does aligns.

Moderators should not be gagging forum members who disagree with them and if there is an argument a moderator is in with a forum member some other moderator should step in and administer punishment.

[windhound]

Er.  So...  
If a member of the staff and  a player have a disagreement in game, then the staff member cannot call out said player on a violation of forum rules?

There was no abuse of power here.
The gag was warranted and administered appropriately.  


Edit:  Merged topics and Juska's post ended up above mine.
This was a cumulative thing Juska.  It wasnt just based on that topic, and that post specifically. 

[lonewolf1817]

this is malarky.....  the only reasonable mature course of action for the entire moderating staff would have been to made shadow appoligize and for the other 2 moderates to realize they need to be mature and except the fact that one of there own made a mistake.

[windhound]

2. The gag was entirely appropriate. Sevs was given more then enough warnings.  I don't have time to watch every topic on the forums, but when gags happen i retroactively moderate the topics in question, and in this case I would have gagged Sevs myself.

The gag was warranted and administered appropriately. 

I'm open to discussion and debate, but if you're going to be like that lonewolf I might as well lock the topic and be done with it.
There was no mistake in Sevz's gagging, thus no reason to apologize. 

[lonewolf1817]

this is ridiculous. im a donating member and one of the oldest players still in game (your really gona sit there and tell me my opnion isnt valid) ..... i will speak my mind whenever i want. The gag was entirely unwarrented and every moderator that deffends shadow is just as guilty. Im not impressed by the way the admin staff is handling this......

[Holby]

this is ridiculous. im a donating member and one of the oldest players still in game (your really gona sit there and tell me my opnion isnt valid) ..... i will speak my mind whenever i want. The gag was entirely unwarrented and every moderator that deffends shadow is just as guilty. Im not impressed by the way the admin staff is handling this......

Given that you are a long-time member, I'm not impressed with your lack of coherency, your spelling, your grammar, or your string of nonsensical posts.

I do respect your right to question the issue, and it does enter murky water given that Shadow was personally involved in the exchange, but then acted as a moderator. But realistically, Sevz has been gunning for Shadow for a long time, and was lucky not to be permanently banned for threatening physical violence on him a few weeks ago. I suppose it's the straw that broke the camel's back. I understand the desire to discuss it, and question the motives, but blatantly attacking staff in an irrational manner does little for your case.

You also seem to be getting confused between IG and forum. Shadow has no involvement over admining the game, and Sevz is not disabled, nor has he been prevented from playing. Shadow is not an admin of the forums either, btw.

[Shadow]

Other topics where Sevah got recent warnings:

http://www.redwallwarlords.com/forums/index.php?topic=11378.0
http://www.redwallwarlords.com/forums/index.php?topic=11673.30

Topic where Sevs actually threatened physical violence:
http://www.redwallwarlords.com/forums/index.php?topic=11622.0

That puts his warning count at 5 at the time of the gag, as well as having gotten away with something that generally results in a permanent ban from both forums and game. He is getting off lightly.

Want more? There is plenty.

Sevs had this coming for a long time. He has ignored repeated warnings. The fact that the gag actually happened at a time where I was arguing with him about something unrelated is an unfortunate coincidence.

Contrary to popular belief, I am capable of objective thought while arguing with someone.

It is high time Sevs learned to control what he says on this forum. In retrospect, this should have been done long ago. He will learn to speak civilly, one way or another. One thing you will notice about our exchanges here is that I am always civil about it, and I require that from everyone else. You may not like the subject I am speaking about, but I -will- do it civilly, and so will anyone else involved. You do not make it personal, and you do not make references to someone's life outside of the game in a negative way without objective proof. End of story.

[Juska]

I don't think there is any question about Shadow gaining an advantage in the game, this is purely a matter of the forums and everyone knows that.

The point is that Shadow gagged him because they had a disagreement. Maybe this was a cumulative thing, but the way it was handled was in no way professional. The straw that broke the camel's back was Sevz not agreeing with Shadow? Seems a little abusive to me.

Moderator should not pass judgment on something upon which their sight is marred by personal feelings. Another moderator should have made the decision.

Had Sevz had consistent arguments with some other forum member and then this situation arose you know that he wouldn't have been gagged, but because the person in question was a moderator Sevz got the punishment. And now the rest of staff is defending this abuse why? Because you don't want one of your own to look weak? Because you somehow are held on a different level than non-staff community members?

Once it happens once it will happen again, the next time Sevz makes a joke about Shadow's mom is he going to get banned? The next time something he says something that gets filtered and Shadow's active in the same topic does he get banned? The next time someone who has a disagreement with staff says something mildly offensive is he going to get banned too?

I'm not saying that Sevz is innocent, maybe he did deserve to get gagged; however, Shadow should not have done it.

You don't let the plaintiff be the judge and the jury.

[Shadow]

The point is that Shadow gagged him because they had a disagreement. Maybe this was a cumulative thing, but the way it was handled was in no way professional. The straw that broke the camel's back was Sevz not agreeing with Shadow? Seems a little abusive to me.

Juska, this was not about the disagreement. This was about Sevs making personal attacks. For example:

you cry daily

There is nothing in the argument about that, that is just him making an uninformed character judgement, which is against forum rules. The "gag king" comment is completely innappropriate for this forum on any number of levels.

Now, it has already been said that the topic was moderated by Peace and he said that he would have carried out the gag had I not done it.

Had Sevz had consistent arguments with some other forum member and then this situation arose you know that he wouldn't have been gagged, but because the person in question was a moderator Sevz got the punishment.

Yes Juska, he would have been. And if something similar happens in the future, he will be again. As would you be, if it had been you.

Once it happens once it will happen again, the next time Sevz makes a joke about Shadow's mom is he going to get banned?

I think it best on the whole that the topic of anyone's life outside RWL be avoided. If the references get to a point where they are offenses, then it willl result in a gag.

The next time someone who has a disagreement with staff says something mildly offensive is he going to get banned too?

If what is said is in violation of established forum rules, they will be warned to stop, and if they insist on continuing, they will be gagged. That has always been procedure, which I followed to the letter, and I even gave two warnings in the same thread before gagging. He knew what would happen.

Shadow should not have done it.

My action was objective, the end result was the same as if any other mod had done it. If any staff disagrees with me, they have the power to reverse my decision at any time.

This is my final word on the subject. I will continue to do my job as a moderator as the rules of the forum dictate.

[Holby]

I also think that as staff, we were more tolerant of Sevz's attacking Shadow than we should have been. Had his venting not been at someone on staff, Sevz would have been gagged multiple times already. It certainly wasn't fair for Shadow to be subject to such abuse, and it shouldn't have gone that far.

[Gorak]

all this crying over what?
a 3 day gag?!

OMG! someone can't post in a forum for 3 whole days!!!!! it's the end of the world!!!!

if it was an outright ban, then I could see people wanting to contest it, but a 3 day gag?!!

come on

[Shadow]

Lol. Yay for perspective. Thanks, gorak.