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[Gorak]

I haven't been active enough to get on anyones nerves in the last while :D

[Holby]

Killing is crappo. Never been a fan unless I want to appear crazy-aggressive-mean.

But Blackfly is kinda a pest. Mr. noob (#55) has been stealing cash systematically off indyers for the last 6 months. Good on him for his resourcefulness, but those poor indyers always have it rough. Probably why Juska is tough as nails.

If someone were to kill him, Blackfly couldn't really retaliate.

[Alazar is Back]

I'm not whining cause he was killed, but my point is that it takes FAR greater skill to beat someone down constantly then just kill. Ok so you took the easy way out... ::)

Well volky, you got my support too, if people are going to resort to killing, then maybe its high time they be killed as well.

The thing of it is, is that blackfly not only killed Volky, but Sevz too. My message to them is to grow some cohonas and stand up to your enemies instead of lowblowing them when they arent looking. It may be a war game, but honor and diplomacy are usually needed as well ;)

[Marell]

The thing of it is, is that blackfly not only killed Volky, but Sevz too.

Actually, I believe Sev simply deleted his account and made a new one.

[Shadow]

'm not whining cause he was killed, but my point is that it takes FAR greater skill to beat someone down constantly then just kill.

lolwut? Are you sure you actually agree with that? Remember, I said the same thing!

Anyway, Blackfly killed volky? That seems pretty harsh.

[windhound]

Oh, I donno.  I was thinking about it, I think killing takes more effort.
How many attacks does it take to kill?  Maybe 100?  200?  It doesnt take long to scrape off the big land, chipping away at the small stuff takes a while.  A newsearch on volky shows the last 100 attacks taking no more than 90 acres a shot, usually quite a bit less.

The alternative would be to suicide a bit, then murder.  Even at 1% I think we'd have had him down to negligible net pretty fast with the turns that were used to kill anyways.

Each way involves massive F5'ing.  I'm not sure how you equate skill into it either way.  There is very little skill involved in taking someone down these days. 

But yeah, Sevz deleted for some reason known only to him.  We didnt kill 'im.

[Firetooth]

I also only took 8 acres.  The last 8, but hey.  If taking 8 acres is now a killable offense... 

If it's such a little amout, why did you do it?
The amount doesn't matter, it's why. If you were doing it to kill him, then it's fair does if he gets you back.

But yeah killing is boring as sometimes. F5, F5, F5...
Also, I agree with windy. Why don't people say murdering indies is a low blow? It takes no effort, and can often do nearly as much damage often as killing them. Also, as knowledge of the code and stratergies increases, the skill level to take down a player drops. Also, neither takes skill, the latter just demands a bit more knowledge of the code, which at the end of the day just makes the playing field more uneven. List me one bit of skill, or honor involved in that.
It's nothing to do with "honor," it's a online war game. Sure, play fair (ie. No cheating, backstabbing, borderline code abuse etc.), but making up little codes of honor for some things and not others?
Also, whilst refraining from the "resorting to," I agree with Alazar. If you're that up in arms about it, kill them back. Or if that goes against your code of honour, spend a tonne of time suiciding them and murdering/poisoining/whatever them. Just don't complain about Volk getting killed, or complain if you don't get the same treatment back.
Killing out of the blue is not ever good. However, killing is just in a war, and Volk obviously provoked this response.

Also, it's a game. I always used to find wars quite fun, and killing is a part of them.

Mini-rant over.

[Alazar is Back]

I killed Kell once one reg, for constantly murdering my troops every run and stealing all my cash for 2weeks straight. I got flamed for somehthing like a whole week about it.

Evidently you know very little about takedowns, or takedowns against someone who knows what they are doing, or doing takedowns on an unclanned empire. If ya want a little more advice on how to pull of these kinda tricks I'll let you ask Cody or Sevz.

[windhound]

I took the last 8 because everyone else ran outta turns and I wasnt around when they started ^_^

Anyways, are you saying Volky didnt know what he was doing Alazar? 
A takedown of someone who has a few bil net and a couple hundred acres and is unclanned is challenging, sure.  So is killing someone that big.  If they're clanned its not really that bad, just takes a few more turns and enough net to reach them.
A takedown of someone with 600 mil net and 50k acres, plus clanned isnt hard at all.  Here, I'll break it down for you:  if they have leaders, suicide away until you can murder.  Then murder.  Tons of F5'ing, not much skill involved.

All a takedown really requires is numbers and someone to organize. 
If the person is unclanned then it does take some maneuvering as attacks are limited, but eh.  Still doable, just takes a while.

I know quite a bit about takedowns Ally, I've been here longer than you.  Longer than Cody and Sevz too.  I've watched the game change so that it has become trivial to destroy net, the only thing stopping someone doing so is fear of retaliation and a general feel of good sportsmanship that we've got here at RWL. 

[Sharptooh]

As I see it killing is by far not a cowards way of doing something, if you kill someone you can  be pretty sure they'll come back and try the same thing on you . . .  besides what's more efficient, spending loads of turns murdering part of someone's net of spending loads of turns obliterating their net and forcing them to start again . . . . killing isn't a bug in the game it was built in for a reason.

It's nothing to do with "honor," it's a online war game. Sure, play fair (ie. No cheating, backstabbing, borderline code abuse etc.), but making up little codes of honor for some things and not others?
Also, whilst refraining from the "resorting to," I agree with Alazar. If you're that up in arms about it, kill them back. Or if that goes against your code of honour, spend a tonne of time suiciding them and murdering/poisoining/whatever them. Just don't complain about Volk getting killed, or complain if you don't get the same treatment back.
Killing out of the blue is not ever good. However, killing is just in a war, and Volk obviously provoked this response.

Also, it's a game. I always used to find wars quite fun, and killing is a part of them.

This is a war game, besides I think it's fun when almost everyone in the top 10 is in a war with each other, it makes for more exitement than peacfully netting . . . .

[Peace Alliance]

Yikes, lots of hypocrisy here from those of you taking very polarized opinions.

Alazar, I would hope that people aren't taking you seriously here. I kind of think you're just jumping on a bandwagon and getting overexcited. Most of what you're saying is none sense anyhow.
For example :

Well volky, you got my support too, if people are going to resort to killing, then maybe its high time they be killed as well.

You literally contradict yourself right there! In one sentence you are a hypocrite; impressive i must say.
You also say:

I killed Kell once one reg, for constantly murdering my troops every run and stealing all my cash for 2weeks straight.

Well if you considered that to be justified, and if any others agree, then maybe what could help here would be a brief history of what has happened. The problem with this brief history is that Volkov has his own story... Anyway I understand outrage about a kill, I'm usually outraged too. But believe it or not there are times...

There was a very tentative agreement of peace between BlackFly and Woof at the beginning of this era. One that required effort from both Volkov and Myself to maintain. Neither of us wanted to start a war like we had last era.

My objective with BlackFly until recently has been to store enough troops so that we could prevent bob-sama from locking up land over the slumbery summer (a legitimate concern, as that's when Ereptor took over last year, while everyone is idly doin their summer thang). But recently without that thread we've had a lot of troops and nothing to do with it. So when I got sick of starting almost all my runs on barely any land, I decided to start defending my land: Volkov decided to start plotting my downfall. Not entirely mindful of our agreement for peace, right? Both clans have been playing peacefully since the era begins, and just because mine ends up being more successful then his is reason to break this important agreement??

Because he was plotting against me, I decided to put him out of range. I combined my net with Night Wolfs, and had Volkov taken down something like 200m networth. Less then 2 days later I find that 8b NW destroyed by Volkov's clan.

This much I accept... I mean, I'm on 8b NW, I KNOW that makes me a target. And even though 200m can go into 8b 40 times, I figured I would leave things be. But Volkov didn't like that we stared bouncing back. After destroying 8 billion networth of ours, he decides he's going to destroy another 600m from Windy.

Are we to just let volkov vainly destroy every attempt we make at restoring ourselves? He doesn't even have enough for us to take to account for how much he's taken from us. If we simple "took him down" the dept would be SO far from being payed it's laughable.

So ya, instead of wasting our turns suiciding, murdering and poisoning him for the next 30 days until somehow we become mathematically even and ask for peace again. We killed the guy. He is now our enemy, and after what he did I will not be treating him with respect (well, at least not ingame, heh). The peace between us was broken in this sinuous way, by this schemer.

I understand many of you might have something against BlackFly, and that's cool. Mr Noobs foolish attacks (and trust me, I asked him 1000 times to stop, I don't think he has done it since I returned from camp) could understandably make me your enemy. But don't think that joining up with Volkov's cause is just. Retaliate against Mr Noob as much as you like, I invite you to. I've even made offers to pay back those he's stolen from (if that's you let me know). Because the BlackFly flag is not a dishonorable banner. It's a successful banner, yes, it's a banner much seen holding well defended lands. But we have not stranglehold the game.

Now if you don't mind, I've gotta go write a letter to Iran asking them to gimme their nukes.

[Alazar is Back]

Ok, so he comes back, set back minorly and does it again. What is the point of it all?

In war I would rather keep my enemy weak constantly then go on a hard offensive and let them come back. Just my opinion. Windy I need no lectures. I acknowledge that you have been around alot longer and know alot more than I. I am not bragging up my skill or anything. Your a chill dude and i got nothing against you, i just think that it was a low move. Protect your stuff better ;)

About the hypocrite thing. I don't condone killing, unless someone is picking on noobs, retal and/or onlining...etc. There are special circumstances. Takedowns are in normal game play. Deal with it, and protect it better next time.

[Firetooth]

I killed Kell once one reg, for constantly murdering my troops every run and stealing all my cash for 2weeks straight. I got flamed for somehthing like a whole week about it.

Evidently you know very little about takedowns, or takedowns against someone who knows what they are doing, or doing takedowns on an unclanned empire. If ya want a little more advice on how to pull of these kinda tricks I'll let you ask Cody or Sevz.

A)Peace and windy aren't being flamed? ???
B) I know you weren't trying to brag, but I don't think people should ever make judgments on other players abilities.  I don't see how knowing little about takedowns has anything to do with protecting net either.

Ok, so he comes back, set back minorly and does it again. What is the point of it all?
Takedowns are in normal game play. Deal with it, and protect it better next time.

Define "normal," because I always thought kills were fairly normal too, people just whine about them more

Can somebody here please define "low move" and "honorable?"

@Peace: You're version of the story sounds pretty bias. State the difference between defending and locking. There is a fine line between the two.
"Plotting against you?" +"Plotting your downfall?" Just like I said earlier, everything has a reason behind it. Seems to me you didn't like having any competition.

[Peace Alliance]

The reason behind Volkov ignoring out peace agreement and plotting my downfall is because I am more successful then him.  We've both been netting peacefully, I've just been doing it better.

And defending /was/ locking land, but I wasn't strangle holding the game, I locked less land then people were scraping in their runs.

[Gen. Volkov]

Eh.  I consider us to be about on par volky.  We only destroyed as much net as you did.
Unless you thought you could murder net away without recourse,  this should be closed book

I know you would retaliate, but you and I both know that the "we only destroyed as much net as you did" argument is bull. If you had suicided/murdered me in retaliation, yeah, sure, fine. Bu killing? Uh uh.

If you want to reference past events, eh.  I think there's a limit on the time that can go by where you can claim revenge.  If I punch you on the shoulder one day and you hit me over the head with a plank three months later it doesn't quite even out.

It hadn't been that long, and this series of murders was the first time I had actually done anything to you myself.

I also only took 8 acres.  The last 8, but hey.  If taking 8 acres is now a killable offense...

The last 8 is just as important as the first 30,000. You actually performed the kill. So guess what? You die too.

BTW, what's up with you Oblit?  On your nerves how?  Blackfly hasnt been any more obnoxious than any other clan imho

Except for you know, suiciding/murdering me unprovoked awhile back and then trying to claim emp not long after.

My objective with BlackFly until recently has been to store enough troops so that we could prevent bob-sama from locking up land over the slumbery summer (a legitimate concern, as that's when Ereptor took over last year, while everyone is idly doin their summer thang). But recently without that thread we've had a lot of troops and nothing to do with it. So when I got sick of starting almost all my runs on barely any land, I decided to start defending my land: Volkov decided to start plotting my downfall. Not entirely mindful of our agreement for peace, right? Both clans have been playing peacefully since the era begins, and just because mine ends up being more successful then his is reason to break this important agreement??

The key words here, Ollie, are start plotting. I saw you trying to take emp, you were locking land and had 4 bil in troop net. So I decided that maybe it was time to start planning a takedown. But I DIDN'T do it. Had I done it, you would have gotten a warning that our peace agreement was ended, for a number of reasons, and then I would have taken you out. However, I didn't do it, and then you and your clan came after me, unprovoked, except for vague ideas that I was "plotting something". Then you tried to take emp, and got taken down, though I myself was not part of that takedown. Then I see you gain back a bil net in less than a week, Onyx breaks you, you transfer the net, so I decide to finally get my licks in, and hopefully stop yet another emp attempt. So basically, everything you just said is BS. But hey, nice attempt to defend yourself, so as to avoid having me and apparently 2 or 3 other people come down on you and yours like a ton of bricks. The jealously argument that you are trying to spin here is just silly. In the past couple of years, I've been far more successful than you. If you want me to name all the dominating clans I've led or been a part of, I can, but basically all you have a is few Turbo wins on me... and we both know I count Turbo as much less important than reg.

Oh, and about the NW destruction... poor excuse for killing me. You could have spent some more turns and taken out my NW.

Are we to just let volkov vainly destroy every attempt we make at restoring ourselves? He doesn't even have enough for us to take to account for how much he's taken from us. If we simple "took him down" the dept would be SO far from being payed it's laughable.

There's "restoring yourselves", then there is trying to landlock with a bil plus NW. Oh, and if you don't want me taking you down, then don't stack all your NW on one guy, so that it looks like an emp attempt. Especially after you have already essentially declared war by suiciding and murdering me. What's laughable is you trying to use networth destruction as a pretext for killing me. There's nothing "vain" about me destroying your NW in this situation, it's just me reacting to game events in a logical manner. If anyone is vain here, it's you.

So ya, instead of wasting our turns suiciding, murdering and poisoning him for the next 30 days until somehow we become mathematically even and ask for peace again. We killed the guy. He is now our enemy, and after what he did I will not be treating him with respect (well, at least not ingame, heh). The peace between us was broken in this sinuous way, by this schemer.

/sarcasm/Yeah, because I'm totally the schemer who struck first with no warning./end sarcasm/ Give me a break, you can't try and use my plans as justification here. Are we now supposed to through Neo-Nazi's in jail because they TALK about hating blacks? Of course not, because it's all about actions. Not intentions.

I understand many of you might have something against BlackFly, and that's cool. Mr Noobs foolish attacks (and trust me, I asked him 1000 times to stop, I don't think he has done it since I returned from camp) could understandably make me your enemy. But don't think that joining up with Volkov's cause is just. Retaliate against Mr Noob as much as you like, I invite you to. I've even made offers to pay back those he's stolen from (if that's you let me know).

My cause is just, I have been wronged, twice now, by Peace Alliance and BlackFly. If you want to help out, you are welcome too.

Because the BlackFly flag is not a dishonorable banner. It's a successful banner, yes, it's a banner much seen holding well defended lands. But we have not stranglehold the game.

BlackFly isn't dishonorable? Who started the war last go around by messing with me through murders and poisons? BlackFly. Who moved first this time and then tried to emp? BlackFly. Yet Woof is somehow the more dishonorable clan, for what? Destroying NW? Again, give me a break.