Capture: In Development

[The Lady Shael]

Hi Turbo players,

Capture is being reworked, so please give us feedback on how it is working.

Right now everytime you capture, you take 1.5%-2% of your enemy's leaders.


Feedback?

[Shadow]

Things to look for:

When you are being captured, take a look at your ratio after being maxxed with 21 captures. If your ratio is lower than when you started, this is a problem. Your ratio should go up slightly through being maxxed by captured, and I -think- these numbers do that, but there are some odd things about the way capture takes land that could interfere. So keep an eye out, and give feedback.

With thes numbers, capture will take abot 30%  your leaders if you are maxxed. That might be too high, so let us know if you are suffering for it.

[Shadow]

So I now have some numbers - being maxxed with capture, if you start at 100 ratio, leaves you between 130 and 140 ratio. Does that seem too low to people? I don't quite recall how low you were left after a maxxing before capture broke.

Also, I have a few other mods that we could add to it - for example, we could make it so that if your leaders/hut ratio is over 175, capture takes more than if you are at 100. Thoughts?

[Sevz]

Capture in this game is a mistake

Wolf can capture the invaluable leaders off a Stoat user, re-capture from the wolf and those leaders lose 30% instant value
not a fair return policy and it shows complete disdain for the abilities of the already powerful races

this feature is subject to heavy code abuse and encourages me to leave redwall

[Juska]

So basically Shadow your understanding of capture is this:

It is a tool for leader players to gain leaders much faster and at the same time do no serious harm to the enemy empire?

Thereby simply making it that much easier to gain an advantage while playing leader.

Capture should be offensive, it should hurt the opposing player. It should be shield able, hard to do, return very little land, and 21 unshielded captures should be as devastating as 21 murders.

[Peace Alliance]

Sevs it's not at all helpful to this process to randomly add in that you want to leave RWL. nor will it help you get your way.

I think both juska and sevs attempted to vaguely point out that if the capture spell is too powerful and easy, that it will devalue leaders. Which does make the academy spell less important.

I've used it a few times so far on turbo, doesn't seem to be overwpowered, but we certainly don't need to make it metter.

are the troop training settings effecting results?

[Shadow]

troop training setting is defaulted to 25% on each according to shael.

Capture should be offensive, it should hurt the opposing player. It should be shield able, hard to do, return very little land, and 21 unshielded captures should be as devastating as 21 murders.

it does. I just got done saying that when someone captured me instead of just taking land, nmy defense ratio was left at only 135, whereas if they had taken land my def ratio would have been left at over 200. That's harm. That's all my food in the open for poisons. Which is why I though that is might be overpowered.

But really no about the murder thing. If it were, then a leader player could quite easily lose everything they had built up in the course of a day. Once again, this is not such a bad thing for an indy that can recover it all in a run or two, but leader players take a lot longer to build up, and they should take longer to break down.

I think we could add a few more conditions to it such as taking more leaders from people who have high defense ratio as opposed to low, but that the overall numbers are ok for now.

We could also make it so that you get more from capture if your leader/hut ratio is less than 100, and you get less leaders over 100 ratio, so that it will be harder to fill up huts completely, which would put some value back in leaders.

[Sevz]

the point is, a stoat academies it's leaders which are valued at 1.0
wolf captures a higher amount of leaders per attack from this race, wolf leaders are valued at 1.3

this only makes the solo battle between a good wolf and a good stoat more pointless cos the wolf can't be taken down with someone on the same leader count with 1.0

if you understand the scaling leader ratio you'll understand how much this overcharges 1 race and crumbles another

[Shadow]

You could be right about that. But I think that making capture less effective when the attacker is over 100 ratio will solve that, since the wolf will not be able to get his ratio as high as a stoat, so the 1.3 multiplier will be balanced out if we set up the numbers right.

[Sevz]

that doesn't help, anyone using a stoat is gonna get hit harder

in fact, i've got a strategy i've already used before which is ideal for the changes you suggest and made so far

these changes have been very unsettling to learn

[Shadow]

I think you are misunderstanding.

If the ATTACKER is more than 100 leader/land ratio, they will take less leaders. (This change is not implemeted, it is just an idea). So a wolf will have a hard time getting much over 100 ratio using capture, for example. They will be able to get some, but not as much as a stoat using academy.

[Sevz]

a wolf will have no problems making it to 100%

i fully understand these changes, i'm not as dumb as i look, that'd be impossible

only thing you can do is nurf between race

[Shadow]

You're still not getting it. A wolf will have no problem getting to 100. It WILL have a problem getting much over 100. So all capture would do is make it take less turns to get to 100. Which means maybe an extra 10 or 15 casts of a mission.

[Sevz]

your either playing stupid or your just a n00b

the advantage of this is massive and i'm not about to point out why

good luck to you all
see yas

[The Lady Shael]

Sevz, lighten up. Don't use words like "stupid" or "noob" against other members, it's immature. To be honest, I'm tired of your pessimistic attitude towards RWL. I would be more inclined to listen to your ideas if you stopped insulting our code, our members, and our staff.