Redwall race guide update suggestions

[Death]

My point being that those races are balanced, yours are generally not. I mentioned that in regard to changes. :P
I don't really see super races when I look here though, I just see big numbers on both ends.

I'm not saying add QM race stats to attract QM players though, that's stupid. I'm saying you have a QM based game, so why not check out some races that are already balanced for ideas on how to fix your own?

That post of mine was worded pretty poorly though. It's not my fault though, blame it on Peace and DE. Mostly DE.

[Shadow]

Thing is, some aspects of our code (market, for example, or open atk op) are so drastically different from QM that balances that works there might fail miserably here. I'm not syaing your idea is bad, just that QM can't be translated directly into RWL code without a lot of changes to one side or the other. Preferebly this one, since there are lots of balance issues. But you get the idea.

[Death]

I never meant directly, haha. But I think this is enough talking about it, now we just need to gang up, pressure Peace, and get poo done. Right?

[Shadow]

More pressure Shael I think. But yeah.

[windhound]

For race balancing, poke Sticker.  That's mostly trial and error, all it takes is modifying the database entries.
And testing.  Lots of testing.  Probably a turbo round or two with the new races to see if any one has a distinct advantage.

Shael is responsible for writing new features, Sticker does theme and balancing

[Shadow]

what changes did you have in mind? Things go faster with specifics.

[Juska]

Questions for PA:

Are you reworking the entire race chart?

Will Bonuses be lowered? (Example say nothing exceeding 30%)

Will Bonuses and negatives equal a certain value in each race? (Currently some races have over 200% in the +/- bonus category, remember some negative bonuses are really positives!)

[windhound]

Will Bonuses and negatives equal a certain value in each race? (Currently some races have over 200% in the +/- bonus category, remember some negative bonuses are really positives!)

Not anymore.  Sevz went through it with me a little while back and we fixed that.  Take another look, if you disagree let me know. 
There are some columns where it -could- be a plus or minus, red or green depending on your strategy.  There's a lot of give and take in the game, for instance merc prices - if they're low, you can buy more, but it also means your sell price will be lower.

[Shadow]

Remember that having a simpel balance of stat numbers isn't necessarily balance - there are some stats that are pretty much irrelevent for strats. Like the loyalty bonus on a rat. Having a big negative there is not much of a detriment for the typical monostacking indier.

[Death]

Remember that having a simpel balance of stat numbers isn't necessarily balance

Double emphasis. And no bonus should -ever- exceed like 30%. If you give an indy race high enough of an indy bonus there isn't a single thing you do to even pretend the race is balanced.

[Juska]

Mercenaries only work the way they do because the code is broken.

I know that a balance of numbers isn't always even, but there should some sort of standard that all races must be accountable to.

With the broken merc code Rat has a 320 bonus to only a 120 disadvantage.

280 and 160 even if the merc code was fixed! And all the bonuses help the Rat. So let's assume that Rats only want to indy, thereby eliminating or largely negating the hurt from loyalty and leader negatives.  The Rat alone has a 320 bonus to 70 disadvantage. Yes, RWL has super races.

Perhaps we should group different categories and have them equal 0 together. Or develop a weighting scale.

[Death]

Don't you think dealing with it on an adjustment to adjustment basis would work a little better than having some kind of set scale?

[Shadow]

There have been changes to the race guide recently, take a look in the game guide. But yes, there are still imbalances. Give specific numbers and a logical basis for them, and we will work on it.

[Juska]

http://www.redwallwarlords.com/turbo/rwl.php?action=guide&section=Races%20Guide

That is the game guide I'm working from.

I think that adjusting races race by race is the best choice Death, however I also think there needs to be some sort of fallback. The races are ridiculous right now, that should be prevented.

First we should fix the mercenary code.

Then we should revert the market to the old code, market theft is too prevalent.  Reduce the maximum price for goods or put a time limit on storage to stop the market from just keeping goods safe.

Once those happen we can begin to adjust races.

Also, we should cap bonuses and disadvantages at 30%, to give hybrids a chance and put a hold on the super effectiveness of clan play.

[Shadow]

Yes - that race chart has had some changes made to it recently. In particular, check out the leadership and loyalty bonuses of a few races. There are other changes too, would need to ask windy for a full list.

First we should fix the mercenary code.

Juska. I am going to say this one last time. BE SPECIFIC! Don't say "Fix this." Say, "This is broken, here is why, and here is a suggestion for fixing it." Otherwise you aren't helping.

Then we should revert the market to the old code, market theft is too prevalent.  Reduce the maximum price for goods or put a time limit on storage to stop the market from just keeping goods safe.

I agree that we need to rework the market - not sure that reverting to the old code is the solution though. I have a few ideas that are in line with this in dev, so I'll let you know moew when I can.

Once those happen we can begin to adjust races.

Agreed - any changes to the market will require rebalancing the races.

Also, we should cap bonuses and disadvantages at 30%, to give hybrids a chance and put a hold on the super effectiveness of clan play.

Again, a set limit is NOT going to help - a 30% bonus in one area could be huge, whereas in another it might be negligible. It needs to be done on a race-by-race basis, with the dominant strat for that race in mind.