Redwall race guide update suggestions

[Sevz]

i'm running the numbers and crunching exactly a nice balance between things

currently, redwall has super races battling eachother.

does everyone want this game to be more closer to equal stats with something for everything, or do we want all God races?

i was also just thinking of new races, perhaps bring back abilities or add some features,

what are the chances of a new race coming into play?

i've got endless ideas and new features, i could even work on a 3rd server

[Shadow]

The races do need balancing badly, and if you can come up with a good balance it would likely get implemeted quickly since it is just a matter of changing some numbers. However, people will need to argue it out, so post here along with your reasons for the change and we will get to work in the staff forum.

New race would take longer, but keep the ideas coming.

[Gen. Volkov]

I'd prefer to have a bunch of races that are very good at what they do, but also balanced against each other. In other words, the races should be balanced, without being nerfed.

what are the chances of a new race coming into play?

Low, I think we removed several races when we went to the latest version of RWL.

i've got endless ideas and new features, i could even work on a 3rd server

Let's hear them then.

i'm running the numbers and crunching exactly a nice balance between things

Great! Let's see some stats of your balanced races.

[Daryn]

which are the "super races" you speak of?

[Wolf Snare]

The super races are essentially every race that has a strategy specific purpose, ie. Wolf is leader feast, marten is leader cashing, rat covers industrial aspects, stoat is offensive leader, etc.

What I would really like to see are strategies that other promis have that we do not. Specifically, we should use a few of the worthless races and hone them into feasters and cashers. One great way to do that would be raise the foraging bonus on a race, and raise the merc sell price from $2. I will comment on more ideas as they come;  I don't want to lead the pack with my own suggestions, rather comment in.

[Red Fang]

i say we switch up some of the abilities of the races like lizard and painted one i think there extremely underused

[Shadow]

Rasising food sell price should be something to do anyway

[Juska]

IMO,

If we create a farming race, we should up the mercenary food buy price to at least $20, and the sell price to 7ish.

Also, we need to change the Market and remove who is selling what with a farmer or leaders will rebezzle the heck out of them all day. Or maybe give them a racial that minimizes embezzles greatly.

The problem is we need to make that race have a very large foraging bonus in order to make them comparable to a Wolf's feast, or people will just play Wolf instead (leaders + more food).

[Alazar is Back]

Obviously this is ressurecting an old topic(shut up pip), but I have something to contribute.

What happened to this discussion?

Something really needs to get done with this now. Redwall is way out of date. To be completely honest, if you want to win or even compete here you do one of two things. Indy or Leader. We need a casher, reseller, farmer, and a few hybrid races mixed in. With the playerbase here and the "standard" promi strats we could easily attract new players from other promi's and make it funner for those who are here. Almost everyone runs the same strats over and over, lets do something new.

For instance at valhall, I am running a farmer/indy hybrid that works amazingly, i sell very little troops and just make food to resell for my cash.

Another thing that would be nice to see is strats like indys being able to lock land, not easily of course. In a valhall server I watched sevz take it over using an indy race in a server dominated by magers(leaderers). It wasnt really easy ofcourse but its actually possible over there, unlike here.

Its time for rwl's industrial revolution, idk who will lead the way with exact numbers, but change is needed and needed badly imo. Here is an example of a race chart at valhall:

Race Offense Defense Build Costs Magic Industry Income Explore Market Food Runes Farms
Human 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
Elf -14% -2% -10% 0% +18% -12% +2% +12% 0% 0% +12% -6% 0%
Dwarf +6% +16% +16% +8% -16% +12% 0% -18% +8% 0% 0% 0% 0%
Troll +24% -10% +8% 0% -12% 0% +4% +14% +12% 0% -8% -8% 0%
Gnome -16% +10% 0% -6% 0% -10% +8% -10% -24% 0% -12% 0% 0%
Gremlin +10% -6% 0% 0% -10% -14% -20% 0% -8% -14% 0% +18% 0%
Orc +16% 0% +4% +14% -4% +8% 0% +22% 0% +10% -14% -8% 0%
Drow +14% +6% -12% +10% +18% 0% 0% -16% 0% 0% +6% -6% 0%
Goblin -18% -16% 0% -18% 0% +14% 0% 0% +6% -8% 0% 0% 0%
Ogre +8% 0% 0% +8% +2% -4% +14% -6% 0% +10% +6% -2% 0%
Hobbit -6% +11% -5% -7% 0% -13% -3% -9% -8% +7% 0% +17% 0%
Kobold -8% -12% +8% -8% -4% 0% +12% 0% 0% -10% -8% -6% 0%
Minotaur +18% +12% -4% +14% -16% +6% +14% +12% +11% +12% -10% +5% 0%

Kinda hard to read, but you should get the point.

[Pippin]

Tut Tut ally.

[Shadow]

Thing is, rwl and valhall are very different code. I don't disagree that we should make more strats viable, but it certainly involves more than changing race bonuses.

I suggest you lay out exactly what you expect from, say, the farmer race you have in mind. Come up with the bonuses, race spell, and how any existing aspects of gameplay would have to change in order to support such a strat. WHen you get that out, we can all work to iron out the details. A hint - think of markets and foragers - they are very underused - how could we use the farmer race to bring them back into regular gameplay? How would they have to change? How would this race interact with merceneries and the public market? How will it defend itself? etc

I won't guarantee it will get done, but it is certainly more likely to get facetime in dev if you have a well-thought-out plan specific to each strat you want to make viable. Saying "things need to change" is all well and good, but it won't happen unless you put some effort into the specifics.

[Firetooth]

Also iirc Valhall has more races then  here, so the admins would need to create more races.
But yeah I agree with Ally, rwl has limited options beyond indy and leader, and they both aren't any fun at all after countless months playing doing the same strat every day.

[Peace Alliance]

Well we are in the process of re-balancing the races. I'm leveling out the race chart and making room for 1 or 2 more races. When i designed these races each one of them (painted one excepted) had their own part to play in team dynamics, and that was the goal i had. But it has turned out over time that a few races and a few strategies prevail.

Anyway, input is greatly appreciated, we're hoping to be beta testing it in december.

[Death]

Thing is, rwl and valhall are very different code.

Double emphasis. And anyways, it might be a little nice to ask the race creators about something like that anyways, haha.

Though you guys should really have the generic QM races, I'm sure you'd use names from Redwall or Secret of Nimh or some poo, but those races need to exist.

[windhound]

That's the problem with popping in every now and then Death...  you just asked for something silly.

Race	Offense	Defense	Build	Costs	Loyalty	Training	Income	Scouting	Mercenaries	Food	Leadership	Foraging
Rat	+40%	+0%	+80%	-60%	-40%	+80%	+10%	+10%	-40%	+40%	-10%	-30%
Painted One	+0%	+0%	+0%	+0%	+0%	+0%	+0%	+0%	+0%	+0%	+0%	+0%
Stoat	+30%	+0%	+50%	-10%	+0%	+10%	+10%	+40%	-10%	+20%	+50%	+20%
Fox	-10%	+20%	+40%	+30%	+0%	+0%	+30%	+60%	+20%	+20%	+10%	-30%
Wildcat	+10%	+10%	+20%	+30%	+0%	+20%	+0%	+40%	+10%	+0%	+20%	-10%
Lizard	+0%	+80%	-20%	+10%	-40%	+40%	+20%	+80%	-30%	+20%	-10%	+0%
Wolf	+0%	+40%	-20%	+20%	+30%	-30%	-10%	+20%	+0%	+40%	+30%	-30%
Marten	-10%	-10%	+40%	-50%	-10%	-20%	+40%	+0%	+20%	+20%	+30%	-10%

http://www.redwallwarlords.com/reg/rwl.php?action=guide2&section=Races%20Guide

Check out those numbers.  The generic QM races uses %s on the order of 1-10% ish, if that.  Ally's Vahall chart tops at 22%.  RWL has a couple 80% bonuses on the chart.  Current RWL races are, as mentioned, super races.  A default QM race wouldn't stand a chance.

Anyways, there's more than one way to do a race chart.  Its kinda assumed that when you play another promi you'll have a new set of races to learn, though there will generally be one suited to your strategy.
Plus, the standard QM player isn't someone we're likely to recruit anyhow, similar races or no.

But yeah.  Changes are being looked at, should have them live ina bit.