Suggestion: Point System

[Juska]

Ok, so we all know that Reg. goes on continually until a major code change or Admin Error and as such nothing really counts or measures how well you did over the course of that era, you could have set emp for 2 months then went inactive and 4 months later when the era is over who would know?

So, in order to keep track of and measure our successes on Regular I propose a point system.

Points would be awarded every time turns are given and would work as follows:

If you are ranked 41st or below you receive no points, ranks 40-11 receive from 1 to 30 respectively (if your ranked 38th you'd get 3 points and if your ranked 22nd you'd recieve 23 points etc.), players in the top 10 would receive double the points so 10th place would get 62 points and the player in first receives triple points so if your first place you'd get 120 points.

I think that something of this nature would help to make playing regular more engaging and less like treading water.

[Ashyra Nightwing]

I like it. Especially now I've been in the top ten for a while.  :)

[The Lady Shael]

It would reward the players who have been around. But not for the new players who sign up later, who have no chance to catch up. It wouldn't be an accurate measure of playing ability, though it would encourage people to keep playing.

[Juska]

Well, it suppose to reflect an accurate level of player skill throughout the duration of an era, not be a reflection of player skill in general.

If you want to see a more accurate representation of player skill based on the amount of time played, then I suggest adding a second point category which simple takes total points accumulated and divides it by active days played.

I also think that my prior point system was rather bland and doesn't pronounce the differences in ranking very much at all and so would rather suggest it work like this:

40th will again receive one point and then the formula scales upwards so it's:

Prior Rank Points +1 taken to the 1.o2 power.

Seems to give fairer numbers imo.

[Shadow]

A better system might be your points divided by turns used. Active days isn't something counted by the code I don't think?

I like the idea though.

[Juska]

I feel that since points are given over a time-based system that average points should be given over a time-based system as well.

If points were given when a turn was a taken I would feel differently.

Active days isn't currently counted, but it shouldn't be too hard to do. The code already records creation dates and knows when an empire goes into vacation, it just need to track things and record them.

[Shadow]

That's the thing though - a time-based system doesn't acitvely reflect skill either, since an amazing player might only run once in a while. Why not make it that you get one point for each turn spent in the top 10, and then divide this total by the amount of turns you have used, and multiply by 100. This will give you a count of exactly what percent of their career a player has spent in the top 10.

[Juska]

Because not everyone in the top 10 runs their turns in the top, they will sell or aid down to run turns in order to drop upkeep. If you drop upkeep to run and then run 350 turns at 1/5 your former size before regaining your net and reclaiming your spot in the top 10, that would not be a fair representation of your skill. Or you could technically try to only run turns when your in the top 10 and then convert your net to cash or store it on the market to protect it, and then retrieve it to run in the top 10. You could spend your turns in the top 10 without ever really being top 10, or you could be top 10 without spending your turns in the top 10. In addition to this, it would make other players chances of knocking you down in points ranking much harder, if it only gave turns when your running, because you only need to have net when running. Really giving points when you spend turns is not an accurate representation of skill at all.

If your a great player who only runs once in a while it will still be reflected, because you will constantly be gaining points even when your not around. So if your ranked 3rd and a day goes by, then your average per day score is going to be same (assuming you've only ever been third) as it was yesterday and your total score will increase.

And because ranks are updated every time the server gives you turns it would be much easier and more accurate to give points out at the same time as turns.

Oh and also, I just thought of a much easier way to do "active days" you simply code it so that whenever points are given out you also give 1 point to another category for that empire (even if you get 0 points) then you divide the times point are given category by 144 (the amount of times that turns and points would be given in a day) and then divide total points by that number, and boom average points per active day.

[Shadow]

Well, to be honest this will never be an accurate skill measure, because there are all kinds of ways around any system suggested so far. For example, someone random gets aided into the top 10 without spending a turn, and gets all kinds of points without doing anything. To get a truly accurate representation of skill would require keeping track of aid sent/received, net sold, etc, etc and is basically impossible for such a small gain.

But you are right - time is better than turns used, because indiers would have a hard time building points when they drop net to run. Hm...

I know! You stop getting points when your turns (reg and stored) are completely full. This means that in order to keep gaining, you need to run regularly. Points are then awarded for time spent in the top 10 while not at full turns, and divided by turns spent.

[Juska]

Yes, aiding distorts player skill to an extent, although I don't see how net sold or anything else would technically effect this system.

It then falls to us as the community to police the point system so as to not allow players recognition who don't deserve it.

You technically could compensate for aid given to other players and then subtract points from them, but I don't see the point in trying to figure out something fair in that.

Oh and also, I just thought of a much easier way to do "active days" you simply code it so that whenever points are given out you also give 1 point to another category for that empire (even if you get 0 points) then you divide the times point are given category by 144 (the amount of times that turns and points would be given in a day) and then divide total points by that number, and boom average points per active day.

Also, I don't see why points should only be given for being in the top 10, I think giving points to the entire top 40 would encourage player involvement to much a greater level. New players who can't get into the top 10 are going to be discouraged if they are not gaining any points at all.

Only giving points when your turns are gaining throws a lot of things out of whack, could be crazily abused etc.

[Shadow]

What does it throw out of whack? How could it be abused? It means that you need to run regularly in order to get points, or at least use turns regularly. Which means that emping alone won't get you points unless you are an active emp. Being aided into the top 10 won't get you that many points either. Which means that the majority of a person's points are going to come from their own work. And yeah, top 40 is fine, doesn't matter about those details til the rest is worked out.

[Juska]

While I see the value of locking points to only fillable turns in order to minimize aid's impact, by doing it you penalize players who are using strategies that require them to be active, but do not require using a large amount of turns. For example, resellers.

Reselling is when you store a large amount of cash, then proceed to buy troops and increase your networth by selling troops on the market for more than your mercenary price and forgo running turns in order to not incur upkeep costs on your rather large networth.

I understand that kind of strategy is borderline viable here with our market situation, but I would rather not see any strategy get short-changed on the system.

In addition, players who cannot play regularly will be penalized as well. Something that you cited already that we want to avoid. Which will hurt every empire rather than solely players who received aid.

I guess I sort of went off the handle when I said "crazily abused", but you could abuse it by aiding net from empires who know they are going to be away for a certain period of time to empires who will remain active, whether this be a clanmate or perhaps in exchange for some type of in-game good.

Hey, I'm going away for 2 weeks, I'll aid you my net and when I get back you send me $$$ in return.

Although, technically you could do that in my proposed system as well, to fix it we'd have to allow vacation empires to stay ranked and keep giving them points. But really I doubt many players will do that and it'll be hard to pin it on someone as for points use only. So meh, just stated it. But for periods that don't merit vacation, but know that they will be away it could be abused to an extent.

Moving on, I hazard to argue that if you are smart/diplomatic/deceiving/conniving/pitied/loved enough etc. to receive aid in any form from another player then you deserve the received aid and subsequent points. Player skill goes deeper than what is "purely" coded to the people and personalities themselves.

Finally, players will themselves be a deterrent to the problem of aid because what you aid away now leaves you as "seemingly" worse than what you actually are. Once more the community will be the judges and your clan's results will be your condolence.

Speaking of clans I feel we should implement points for them as well.

 

[Shadow]

For example, resellers.

reselling doesn't work here - you wouldn't evne get in range to gain points as a reseller :P

In addition, players who cannot play regularly will be penalized as well. Something that you cited already that we want to avoid. Which will hurt every empire rather than solely players who received aid.

So? if yo ucan't play regularly you probably wouldn't be that competitive anyway. But remember that this system will eventually get way out of hadn no matter what we do,  since it never resets. Eventually, someone will get too far ahead to be stopped.

But also remember that players who don't play regularly will spend less turns, so their score will be higher because it is divided by a smaller number, so it balances out in the end.

Hey, I'm going away for 2 weeks, I'll aid you my net and when I get back you send me $$$ in return.

Noting wrong with that, better to keep the net in the game than on vacation. People take a risk by doing that as well.

[Juska]

reselling doesn't work here - you wouldn't evne get in range to gain points as a reseller :P

Obviously you didn't read my explanation of what a reseller is, I stated that resellers boost themselves with stored net and then increase through market sales from there. If I was going to resell here, which by the way I believe there is a niche for at least one reseller on Regular (not turbo turns come too fast), I would store cash until I could hit 500mil net, so I would be high enough anyway.

So? if yo ucan't play regularly you probably wouldn't be that competitive anyway. But remember that this system will eventually get way out of hadn no matter what we do,  since it never resets. Eventually, someone will get too far ahead to be stopped.

But also remember that players who don't play regularly will spend less turns, so their score will be higher because it is divided by a smaller number, so it balances out in the end.

Well, if you took the time to look at the points system I proposed in my second post you would see there a quite a difference between say 1st (300 points per tick) and 20th (~80 points per tick), it's quite possible to overcome someone in points and I think it would incite quite a bit more activity to have a war for points.  You also seem to be stuck on the notion that average points should be king, which personally I think should be the secondary system and total points should be king.

And to quote you: since an amazing player might only run once in a while.

Noting wrong with that, better to keep the net in the game than on vacation. People take a risk by doing that as well.

Yeah, I'm not so caring about that personally.

[Shadow]

Obviously you didn't read my explanation of what a reseller is, I stated that resellers boost themselves with stored net and then increase through market sales from there. If I was going to resell here, which by the way I believe there is a niche for at least one reseller on Regular (not turbo turns come too fast), I would store cash until I could hit 500mil net, so I would be high enough anyway.

I know what reseller is lol. At the rate the market goes on reg, by the time yuo got in range to get points you would be so far behind everyone else that it wouldnt matter.

Well, if you took the time to look at the points system I proposed in my second post you would see there a quite a difference between say 1st (300 points per tick) and 20th (~80 points per tick),

please stop with that lol, I read it. What I am saying is that over the course of say a year, -someone- is going to get so far ahead that it can't be overtaken. Average points winning takes a long timeline out of the picture and balances things in the long run,