Vacation

[Wolf Snare]

Actually volk you are wrong in almost every point you made. You shouldn't forget that we had full intell on you the entire round. We saw behind the scenes of Watchtowers "heroic and honourable" reputation. We also watched you store away bit by bit, and we were all honestly surprised at how easy it was to match and surpass nearly everything in your storehouse.
  Even as your numbers grew, we were able to outmass you comfortably in everything except cash. At one point you guys had a measly 400 mil rats, while we had maxed it at 2.4 bil. We were updated almost daily on your storehouse, so don't give me that nonsense Dan. Sure, you can brag about recruiting better, but then again you were naive enough to trust just about anyone, and it backfired. My main point is do not try to claim you had a better storehouse and more productive team, because we saw just as well as you did what you had in there.
  Infact if I recall correctly, we had the upper hand all round up until less than a week ago when watchtower started associating with lower clans to give them an edge. After a few of us mysteriously died, Kyle routinely claimed to be innocent.
Surprisingly (not really), I received reports of watchtowers entire clan forums, and I read posts where watchtower was discussing kill runs on us for no reason, and when prompted for a reason, Kyle said he would make one up, or avoid attention to himself altogether. Go ahead shadow and Volk, boast now about how you fight your own battles. So far only Blankshots has actually proved anything.
 Kyle, if you are going to be "diplomatic" as you claim to be, do so without manipulating new players to conspire against us. It takes no skill.  You're their role model (however screwed up that is...) and it has been demonstrated that you also do their thinking for them. Perhaps you don't tell them to try kill runs, but it's your hypocritical words and actions that prompt them.
   Finally, we have every right to hold off on vacation for the time being. The majority of our team could not make it to the distribution, and because of your cheap onlining tactics and hypocrisy we had to do something drastic. If you are going to claim to be the good guys like usual, at least get your facts straight.. We haven't started anything thus far. BTW Volk, you outnumbered us immensely for active players at the dist, and we still beat you.

[Shadow]

We killed Juska because he killed Saladin. We killed you because you tried to get our allies to kill us. New guy killed one of you, I have no idea why and am not responsible for that. Where are these 'mysterious kills' coming from? They don't exist, get your facts straight.

You outmassed us in troops because you had almost twice as many indiers. We owned you in cash cause we had twice as many martens.We beat you in food, and I was the only one food massing for 90% of the round.  In the end, you had 26b net, we have 25b net, but our 1.5 ttriilion cash can easily top you. We beat you for net.

Now you are sitting on vacation because you can't defend it otherwise. That's cheap, and you know it. You are avoiding the main point.

[Firetooth]

Yah, intentional maxing isn't code abuse, because as Oblit pointed out, we're rodents with no honour.
Hacking the code is legal, we're rodents with no honour.
::)
Once again, a round that was destroyed by code abuse, cheap insults and hypocrisy all round...Not joining up next round.

And all kills on guy other then Juska may have been inderictly related to me (thought I'd actually retracted my offers earlier in the round before the kills actually happened) before you start playing the lets dog Shadow and co game...A game you seem to be much better at then the actual game lately Snare. Another game you excel at...waste a page of a forum on one post bragging about you and your clans ability. Your a good player, yes. Now instead of wasting our time by making us read it, prove it by playing honourably without spying and code abuse. Or can't you?

[Shadow]

Another note - all your accusations toward me involve me playing like a jerk. Fine. I don't acknowledge that it's true, but fine. I am accusing you of CHEATING. There is a difference. I may not play nice, but I don't abuse the code to win.

Windy - just because your net got destroyed last time is not reason to go on vaca this time. Too [darn] bad. If you can't defend your net until the end of the set, you don't deserve to keep it, and your win counts for nothing in everybody's eyes but your own. And since you have posted here, the holiday crap doesn't work either - you have access to a computer, therefore your vacation is unnecessary in that sense.

Guy - you did attack us first, by putting a spy in our clan, and trying to turn our allies against us.

[Mr.Grimm]

Just wondering but didn't your spy start putting up propaganda by saying that F.O.E. wanted to destroy watchtower? Sorry if this has already been covered.

[The Lady Shael]

I'm saying this not as an admin, but as a RWL member, so please don't ask me to take action on this:

-In my personal opinion-....vacation should not be used as a "tactic" or "option". It is not a game "feature", that is not the purpose of vacation mode. If Watchtower had done it instead, I'm sure Guy would have been just as upset.

[The Obliterator]

So um now that you can attack us for going on vacation i guess we can forget about clan hopping being code abuse like you always used to say.
Cause im sure you didn't have any qualms about doing that this round.
It seems to me as if whenever we do something questionable you go at us for it.
However when you do it its ok theres no problems with it anymore.

[Briar]

If Watchtower had done it instead, I'm sure Guy would have been just as upset.

Kinda.  IF Watchtower would have done it instead, the only thing Guy would have complained about is that they were being hypocritical, not for the actual move. Shadow got tee'd off at Bob for doing it months ago on reg. 

So some people went on vacation, meh, fine...obviously it is debatable whether or not it is code abuse, but that is up to admin to decide.  Petition them if you have that much of an issue with it.  If no disciplinary action is taken, then let it be.  Bringing up old wounds gets nowhere.

[Gen. Volkov]

Actually volk you are wrong in almost every point you made. You shouldn't forget that we had full intell on you the entire round. We saw behind the scenes of Watchtowers "heroic and honourable" reputation. We also watched you store away bit by bit, and we were all honestly surprised at how easy it was to match and surpass nearly everything in your storehouse.

Not the entire round, but ya, you snuck a spy into our clan fairly early on. We never claimed to be heroes, but at least we aren't cheating.

Even as your numbers grew, we were able to outmass you comfortably in everything except cash. At one point you guys had a measly 400 mil rats, while we had maxed it at 2.4 bil. We were updated almost daily on your storehouse, so don't give me that nonsense Dan. Sure, you can brag about recruiting better, but then again you were naive enough to trust just about anyone, and it backfired. My main point is do not try to claim you had a better storehouse and more productive team, because we saw just as well as you did what you had in there.

At the end of the round, we had 3.9 bil rats. We realized the issue and worked to fix it, so don't give me early round data. We focused on different troops. As for storehouse totals, at the end of the round, each member of Watchtower had 3.7 bil NW or so. Times 7 members, that's about 26 bil NW, nearly same as your total and we had A LOT more cash, which means we out stored you. End of story Cody.

Infact if I recall correctly, we had the upper hand all round up until less than a week ago when watchtower started associating with lower clans to give them an edge. After a few of us mysteriously died, Kyle routinely claimed to be innocent.

We are innocent, as far as I know. There were two kills by us, for legitimate reason, and that was all.

Surprisingly (not really), I received reports of watchtowers entire clan forums, and I read posts where watchtower was discussing kill runs on us for no reason, and when prompted for a reason, Kyle said he would make one up, or avoid attention to himself altogether. Go ahead shadow and Volk, boast now about how you fight your own battles. So far only Blankshots has actually proved anything.

In the clan forums, we did discuss killing two other Guy members, beyond the two we did kill. For legit reason. We were being murdered and stolen from by members of Guy, and several members were hit to very low land. We ended up killing you personally because we found out about your plan to kill us, for no reason at all. We killed Dragonscale (Juska) because he was responsible for the death of Saladin.

Finally, we have every right to hold off on vacation for the time being.

No, you don't, and furthermore it's code abuse, even Shael thinks so.

The majority of our team could not make it to the distribution, and because of your cheap onlining tactics and hypocrisy we had to do something drastic.

It's not our problem that you couldn't organize to make it to the distribution. Still doesn't give you the right to abuse the code. We suicided the two leader players in Guy. I fully admit that. We even onlined one of them, as he came online as we were doing the suicides. He could have suicided our leader players right back. The fact of the matter is, we decided to make sure you guys couldn't defend your net, and you couldn't do the same to us. This forced you to "do something drastic", or in other words, abuse the code.

If you are going to claim to be the good guys like usual, at least get your facts straight..

I'm not claiming to be a good guy, I'm not a generally nice person in game, neither is Shadow. But at least we aren't cheating.

We haven't started anything thus far.

Bull. We killed Dragonscale because he was the reason Saladin died. We killed you because you tried to get us killed. You murdered us and took us to low land. How is that not "starting anything"?

BTW Volk, you outnumbered us immensely for active players at the dist, and we still beat you.

No, you didn't. We had more NW, and forced you to abuse the code in order to preserve your net. That is not beating someone in my or anyone's book.

So who's wrong on every point? Not I.

[Marell]

We also watched you store away bit by bit, and we were all honestly surprised at how easy it was to match and surpass nearly everything in your storehouse.
Even as your numbers grew, we were able to outmass you comfortably in everything except cash.

Tbh, with the number of very active, experienced indies in your clan I was a bit surprised you didn't beat us, and also quite proud of our own few indiers ability to match your clan for stored troops.

Actually volk you are wrong in almost every point you made.

LOL, do you mean "actually Volk, I'm wrong in every point I made"

So um now that you can attack us for going on vacation i guess we can forget about clan hopping being code abuse like you always used to say.
Cause im sure you didn't have any qualms about doing that this round.
It seems to me as if whenever we do something questionable you go at us for it.
However when you do it its ok theres no problems with it anymore.

Leaving your clan to protect net is a legitimate strategy, thats how you emp. Clan hopping would refer more to if someone was unclanned, joined a clan to leader suicide or murder someone, and then got the clan leader to boot them again (which is what we used to argue was code abuse, not just emping). At least we're still in the game and people are able to attack us if they want to.

 Kyle, if you are going to be "diplomatic" as you claim to be, do so without manipulating new players to conspire against us. It takes no skill.  You're their role model (however screwed up that is...) and it has been demonstrated that you also do their thinking for them. Perhaps you don't tell them to try kill runs, but it's your hypocritical words and actions that prompt them.

OMG. Where do you keep gettign this idea from? Please explain how you think he is the one who manipulated new players against you.
The only attempt I saw made to manipulate new players this round was by yourself I believe, if you were Rook, who told Night Wolf he would pay him and his clan to kill Watchtower. A feeble attempt to split apart the alliance of our two clans, an alliance built on trust and friendship, not money and manipulation.

Anyways.  If Watchtower had won fair and square, why make it impossible for Guy to win by destroying their leaders?  
That's a rather low blow tbh.  Three weeks worth of careful storing can be destroyed in 10 min if they didn't have defenses.  If you had them beat flat-out, why not prove it, rather than heavy-handed net destruction.

Suiciding your leaderers leaders was a legitimate, intelligent, and obvious tactic. You guys should have been a bit more prepared for the distribution. Unless the plan all along was just to boost one person and go into vac  :P

I am accusing you of CHEATING. There is a difference. I may not play nice, but I don't abuse the code to win.

There probably needs to be some change to the game to prevent this kind of cheating taking place...but I can't really think of anything that will only stop the attempted cheaters, and wont harm the legit vacationers. At the least it has to be made sure that when a player sets vac they drop down into the vac area of the scoreboard (so we can deffinately notice they are actually going into vac) and stay attackable for possibly an extended 24-36 hours? Why is it that its only a 12 hour waiting period? If you are legitimately going into vac, and are not running for cover, then you have no need to fear that your account will get smashed in that time.

So I'd like to request for the attackable period to be extended. Thought?

[Briar]

There probably needs to be some change to the game to prevent this kind of cheating taking place...but I can't really think of anything that will only stop the attempted cheaters, and wont harm the legit vacationers. At the least it has to be made sure that when a player sets vac they drop down into the vac area of the scoreboard (so we can deffinately notice they are actually going into vac) and stay attackable for possibly an extended 24-36 hours? Why is it that its only a 12 hour waiting period? If you are legitimately going into vac, and are not running for cover, then you have no need to fear that your account will get smashed in that time.

So I'd like to request for the attackable period to be extended. Thought?

(still new at the whole rules about vacation and such, so if this makes no sense, ignore)
Maybe put them at different color for the 12-hr waiting period and then turn them green and drop them. That way people know that they can attack him during that 12 hours.

I think the 12-hours is fine, because, when it is used how it is supposed to be used, it protects those that leave.  If it were to be extended, maybe limit the number of attacks per hour for both clanned and unclanned warlords.

[The Lady Shael]

So um now that you can attack us for going on vacation i guess we can forget about clan hopping being code abuse like you always used to say.
Cause im sure you didn't have any qualms about doing that this round.
It seems to me as if whenever we do something questionable you go at us for it.
However when you do it its ok theres no problems with it anymore.

Whenever anyone does something questionable I'll bring it up. I like everyone at RWL, so it's not like I have a grudge against anyone specifically.

Clan hopping is over. The reason it was such a big deal before was because there were no measures to restrain it. Now with the 3-day waiting period, there is. So it's no longer code abuse, unless the 3-day waiting period had a loophole.

[Shadow]

I think we should just abolish voluntary vacation, and have it so that it only goes on vacation if you don't log in for a week or so. Maybe a bit less on turbo.

Guy members, you know that you are cheating and absing code. What has been done in the past does not justify continuing it now.

[Peace Alliance]

A lot of talk here that I think is silly. I believe we all agree the vacation move was cheap. Even if windy claims he's legitimately busy, he would acknowledge that the timing of his vacation-setting was a cheap way to play the game.

But people are allowed to play this game as cowards, just as they are allowed to play with honor. The only time code should be implemented to stop it is when there is an exploit found, or when something is ruining the game.

This is a fairly isolated incident, probably one we won't have to worry about until the next storehouse round. There is a solution we could put right into the storehouse theme. That would be to force all vacationers out of vaca 3 days before the reset...

Or... You could just remember what bob and company has done this round, and give them a harder time at doing it next round.

[Blood Wake]

there is a loophole with the 3 day waiting to be able to leave a clan. Assistants and I think clan leaders have the ability to kick themselves or anyone else they want out of the clan.

I don't know why you guys keep crying about every little thing that was done during this war. keyword there people, war. Cody accuses us of saying that we're the good guys and that we shouldn't be able to call ourselves that with what we've done. well we don't consider ourselves the good guys, I haven't heard any of us say in any way that we're good in anyway. This was a war people, you did dirty stuff, we did dirty stuff. We had the most networth at the end, you pretended to. no matter how you look at it, Watchtower won this war. You guys say that you had to do what you had to do because we destroyed your leaders, well stop crying! it's a war! we did what we though was necisarry to win. everyone who has said anything in this topic knows that Watchtower is the winner. admit your loss.

Tarkus