New Theme: Communist Rule

[Sharptooh]

the names dont matter that much. and i think marx as the inventor of communism deserves his spot

  I agree, even if he didn't like what Stalin and Lenin turned his ideas into he still played a vital role in communism (without him it prob wouldn't exist!)

I sent a message in game to this effect, but seriously, you names for the emps are not appropriate. Marx died before the Bolsheviks ever even took power in Russia, and would have been spinning in his grave if he had seen what they did to his ideas in Russia. Castro was a third rate dictator in an insignificant country, it was only the Cuban Missile crisis that ever made him relevant on the world stage. Stalin and Lenin are fine, they were the first two leaders of the Soviet Union. Trotsky was a high ranking member of the communist party, at least for awhile, but he was never a leader of the Soviet Union. His philosophy also different markedly from the Stalinist mainstream of the Soviet Union.

Peace at one point talked to me about different soviet leaders, obviously he never bothered to write what I said down.

1) you make it seem as if the round revolves around Russian communism when it revolves around communism in general.
2) Castro should count as he is a well know communist figure, whether he's in an insignificant country or not doesn't matter he's probably one of the best know communist leaders.
3) does it really matter about the names it just seems as if you're looking for a good argument  ???

[Firetooth]

1)Im sure Marx would love (not) to be associated with Lenin and Stalin
2)Trotsky wasn't a leader. Ever
3)Castro has no link with any of the others at all other then that he's communist

[Gen. Volkov]

I agree, even if he didn't like what Stalin and Lenin turned his ideas into he still played a vital role in communism (without him it prob wouldn't exist!)

The problem is, this is not Marx's communism in any way shape or form. He envisioned a world where there was no state, and everything was in the hands of the people. Not the dictatorial regimes we are talking about here.

1) you make it seem as if the round revolves around Russian communism when it revolves around communism in general.

If the Russians had won the Cold War, the world would revolve around Russia. The USSR was far and away the most important communist state. Communism in general took it's cues from Russia. The only state that didn't listen to Russia so much was China, but even they were still heavily influenced by Russian communism.

2) Castro should count as he is a well know communist figure, whether he's in an insignificant country or not doesn't matter he's probably one of the best know communist leaders.

He's well known for the Cuban missile crisis. If not for that, he'd just be another third rate tinpot dictator. He's had exactly zero influence on world affairs since the crisis.

3) does it really matter about the names it just seems as if you're looking for a good argument

Well if I am, all I've gotten to this point is poor arguments. I'm afraid it does matter about the names. Why? Because history matters. If we don't know our history, how are we to avoid repeating it?(To paraphrase the famous quote) Knowing who was and wasn't an important communist leader is something that's important.

[Sharptooh]

1)Im sure Marx would love (not) to be associated with Lenin and Stalin
2)Trotsky wasn't a leader. Ever
3)Castro has no link with any of the others at all other then that he's communist

  I'm sure he wouldn't, but like I said earlier however much influence Russia had on the world communism all came from marx (whether he likes it or not) it doesn't matter how his communism was different to russian communism it is still communism, and there may have been different countries (unsure) that followed marx's communism.

  I agree about Trotsky, but most of the names up there have little link other than they're all communist leaders.

I agree, even if he didn't like what Stalin and Lenin turned his ideas into he still played a vital role in communism (without him it prob wouldn't exist!)

The problem is, this is not Marx's communism in any way shape or form. He envisioned a world where there was no state, and everything was in the hands of the people. Not the dictatorial regimes we are talking about here.

  Whether it's how he envisioned it or not communism came into existance because of him, he may not want to be associated with it but I'm sure if he knew his name was included in a game for one month with around 40 people playing this game and out of those 40 around 3 people going into great depth about names included.

1) you make it seem as if the round revolves around Russian communism when it revolves around communism in general.

If the Russians had won the Cold War, the world would revolve around Russia. The USSR was far and away the most important communist state. Communism in general took it's cues from Russia. The only state that didn't listen to Russia so much was China, but even they were still heavily influenced by Russian communism.

  The Russians didn't win the war and even though they may be the most important communist state that still doesn't mean there was communism in other places (China) that weren't influenced entirely by Russia, or that there may be more communist countries in the future that aren't influenced by communist Russia.

2) Castro should count as he is a well know communist figure, whether he's in an insignificant country or not doesn't matter he's probably one of the best know communist leaders.

He's well known for the Cuban missile crisis. If not for that, he'd just be another third rate tinpot dictator. He's had exactly zero influence on world affairs since the crisis.

  He's also known for being one of the longest lasting communist dictators, and the cuban missile crisis still happened, so what if he wouldn't be very well known if it hadn't the important thing is that the cuban missile crisis did happen, and that made him one of the most well know communist leaders in history, there may be others but like I said, if you asked anyone for the names of 5 communist leaders, 9 out of 10 times Castro would come up.

[Gen. Volkov]

I'm sure he wouldn't, but like I said earlier however much influence Russia had on the world communism all came from marx (whether he likes it or not) it doesn't matter how his communism was different to russian communism it is still communism, and there may have been different countries (unsure) that followed marx's communism.

No, actually, Russian communism is not communism as Marx envisioned it. The idea of communism came from Marx, but how it was implemented by the Soviet Union was very much NOT Marx's idea. No "communist" country, that I am aware of, has ever successfully implemented Marx's idea of communism. They've all been extreme Socialist states, with central planning and the government controlling all industry.

  I agree about Trotsky, but most of the names up there have little link other than they're all communist leaders.

Actually Lenin and Stalin were both leaders of the Soviet Union. But the other three have little relation, which exactly what I was talking about.

Whether it's how he envisioned it or not communism came into existance because of him, he may not want to be associated with it but I'm sure if he knew his name was included in a game for one month with around 40 people playing this game and out of those 40 around 3 people going into great depth about names included.

I can't make heads or tails of this. What's the point you are trying to make here?

The Russians didn't win the war and even though they may be the most important communist state that still doesn't mean there was communism in other places (China) that weren't influenced entirely by Russia, or that there may be more communist countries in the future that aren't influenced by communist Russia.

I can't say what will happen in the future, and neither can you, so that argument is irrelevant. About the only communist country that didn't march to the same step as Russia when the Soviet Union was around was China. All the rest took their cues from Russia, because they were either part of the Warsaw pact or had Russian "advisors". China was not allied with Russia and did not have Soviet advisors. Nevertheless, Chinese communist ideology was very heavily influenced by Russian communism. Russia was definitely the most important communist country, and still would be, had they not lost the Cold War.

  He's also known for being one of the longest lasting communist dictators, and the cuban missile crisis still happened, so what if he wouldn't be very well known if it hadn't the important thing is that the cuban missile crisis did happen, and that made him one of the most well know communist leaders in history, there may be others but like I said, if you asked anyone for the names of 5 communist leaders, 9 out of 10 times Castro would come up.

Fine. Notoriety still doesn't equate to importance. Castro's Cuba had one moment of international relevance, since then, nothing. I'm just saying that if we're gonna have a theme called Communist Rule, they should all be from the same country, and since Russia was the most important communist country, they should be from Russia. 3 of the 5 are already Russian, and 2 of those were actually leaders of the Soviet Union, so why not just unify the leadership and make them all Soviet leaders. There are 3 I can think of right now that were far more important and influential in the world than the others on the list, excepting Marx, but he doesn't belong on a list of Communist Rulers in the first place. Here's the three: Kruschev, Brezhnev, and Gorbachev.

[kell]

marx's ideas can't be done on a large scale though they have worked very well in small villages and the like.

volky give castro a little bit more credit, the bay of pigs? jfk assasination, maintianing the country despite an US embargo

as for other communist leaders pol pots? ho chi min? mao, chavez or my all time fav who's dad was irish che guevara

[Gen. Volkov]

volky give castro a little bit more credit, the bay of pigs? jfk assasination, maintianing the country despite an US embargo

I don't buy in to the JFK assassination conspiracy theories. Bay of Pigs was the US's muck up, Castro wasn't really involved to a great extent. He maintained the country sure, but it's not a country anyone is dying to enter.

as for other communist leaders pol pots? ho chi min? mao, chavez or my all time fav who's dad was irish che guevara

We weren't really discussing other communist leaders, were we?

marx's ideas can't be done on a large scale though they have worked very well in small villages and the like.

Well, the communes formed in the 60's and 70's worked well for awhile, but most of them broke up fairly soon after they were formed. I dunno if any made it past 5 years. I dunno if Marx's ideas have ever actually worked in practice, though if they were to work, it would have to be with a small number of people.

[corradojeff]

On topic for the thread but off topic to what people are talking about:

I am finding this round difficult. I get my economy stable and then the next time I log in i have more troops to support than I can afford. Thank the gods for Marten Goldmine.